Tool - 10,000 Days (lyrics, metal, mp3, single, albums)

**sleepy jack** · 12-17-2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

The story, correct. Not the songs. In fact, most Biblical songs about Eden aren't even documented in the Bible itself.

Kind of funny how you bring up this point all the sudden after stating that you'd never heard a song that used Eden as a metaphor.

Ace · 12-17-2007, 10:47 PM

I haven't heard it....wasn't around 2,000 years ago to hear it, mate. When are you going to call this done? =))

Fal · 12-17-2007, 10:55 PM

Re-read the post. He's not talking about songs that utilise Eden, but songs that utilise Eden as a metaphorical tool. Pay attention to the discussion at hand.

**sleepy jack** · 12-17-2007, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

I haven't heard it....wasn't around 2,000 years ago to hear it, mate. When are you going to call this done? =))

Heard, read, it all adds up to the same thing. Read Fal's post, he basically said what I was about to say.

Ace · 12-17-2007, 10:59 PM

The song was used as a metaphor 2,000 years ago, and as a song in general. Point...if it doesn't make Tool original, it doesn't make Dylan original either, because it was used in song format over 2,000 years earlier. Other point, Right In Two is not cliche. End of the entire discussion, hopefully.

**sleepy jack** · 12-17-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

The song was used as a metaphor 2,000 years ago, and as a song in general. Point...if it doesn't make Tool original, it doesn't make Dylan original either, because it was used in song format over 2,000 years earlier.

Somehow I doubt christians were sitting in their pews using the Garden of Eden as a metaphor for war, but I havn't actually seen these supposed songs so I guess I can't comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

Other point, Right In Two is not cliche. End of the entire discussion, hopefully.

It's not really a point if you don't back it up or counter what I said, well maybe it is but not a very good one. "Something being cliche isn't subjective. Being cliche means a popular metaphor, image, idea etc, comparing men to monkeys is a popular image, thus it's cliche."

Ace · 12-17-2007, 11:08 PM

I didn't say a specific metaphor....
And even so, they have used that specific metaphor. You want to nitpick and say using Eden doesn't make em' original, that's fine. Doesn't make Dylan original either, and that's all good. If using a monkey metaphor makes em' cliche in your eyes, that's your opinion.
To tell you the truth, I don't see dozens of songs comparing men to monkeys, though I know of plenty of authors who do so.
Once again, everyone has their opinion, and I hope this little discussion is over with and done.

**sleepy jack** · 12-17-2007, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

I didn't say a specific metaphor....
And even so, they have used that specific metaphor.

I was talking about a specific metaphor this entire time and frankly I'd like to see proof for this. Because I really don't believe a bunch of very orderly people were singing a song about war using Eden as a metaphor with no god metaphors whatsoever.

Quote:

You want to nitpick and say using Eden doesn't make em' original, that's fine. Doesn't make Dylan original either, and that's all good.

Dylan's the first I've seen using it in that way, you're offering nothing actually substantial. Normally I'd take you at your word but I'm extremely skeptical.

Quote:

If using a monkey metaphor makes em' cliche in your eyes, that's your opinion.
To tell you the truth, I don't see dozens of songs comparing men to monkeys, though I know of plenty of authors who do so.

If authors use it plenty of times then guess what? That makes it a commonly used image, thus cliche. The most recent example I can think of is Rilo Kiley's It's a Hit.

Quote:

Once again, everyone has their opinion, and I hope this little discussion is over with and done.

We're talking about objective matters right now, opinions don't mean a thing.

Ace · 12-17-2007, 11:19 PM

Considering as how I work as the sound technician for a local church, I happen to know it's used frequently as a metaphor for man's warlike nature. If you want some proof, I'll give you some directions and you can join their Sunday School. Or you could spend 12-13 years in classes devoted to it, then come back and tell me you've found no proof that no one ever used it as a metaphor. Seriously, quit the nitpicking and drop the subject. Emo is a commonly used theme in songs, so I suppose the entire emo genre is cliche. Let's drop it, eh?

**sleepy jack** · 12-17-2007, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

Considering as how I work as the sound technician for a local church, I happen to know it's used frequently as a metaphor for man's warlike nature. If you want some proof, I'll give you some directions and you can join their Sunday School. Or you could spend 12-13 years in classes devoted to it, then come back and tell me you've found no proof that no one ever used it as a metaphor. Seriously, quit the nitpicking and drop the subject. Emo is a commonly used theme in songs, so I suppose the entire emo genre is cliche. Let's drop it, eh?

Emo is a genre of music, it can't be cliche or a theme in music...

Since you're so learned in this it really shouldn't be hard for you to google one of these many songs should it?

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12-17-2007, 10:47 PM
Ace Negative Creep Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: At a lake. For now. Posts: 520	I haven't heard it....wasn't around 2,000 years ago to hear it, mate. When are you going to call this done? =)) __________________ You're never truly dead, unless your memory dies with you. http://hack-mind.cjb.net <---Vote so I'll update more than once a year. http://ace01071.web1000.com/complaints.html http://myspace.com/euphoric_resolve

12-17-2007, 10:55 PM
Fal My account? Disabled. Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 78	Re-read the post. He's not talking about songs that utilise Eden, but songs that utilise Eden as a metaphorical tool. Pay attention to the discussion at hand.

12-17-2007, 10:59 PM
Ace Negative Creep Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: At a lake. For now. Posts: 520	The song was used as a metaphor 2,000 years ago, and as a song in general. Point...if it doesn't make Tool original, it doesn't make Dylan original either, because it was used in song format over 2,000 years earlier. Other point, Right In Two is not cliche. End of the entire discussion, hopefully. __________________ You're never truly dead, unless your memory dies with you. http://hack-mind.cjb.net <---Vote so I'll update more than once a year. http://ace01071.web1000.com/complaints.html http://myspace.com/euphoric_resolve

12-17-2007, 11:08 PM
Ace Negative Creep Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: At a lake. For now. Posts: 520	I didn't say a specific metaphor.... And even so, they have used that specific metaphor. You want to nitpick and say using Eden doesn't make em' original, that's fine. Doesn't make Dylan original either, and that's all good. If using a monkey metaphor makes em' cliche in your eyes, that's your opinion. To tell you the truth, I don't see dozens of songs comparing men to monkeys, though I know of plenty of authors who do so. Once again, everyone has their opinion, and I hope this little discussion is over with and done. __________________ You're never truly dead, unless your memory dies with you. http://hack-mind.cjb.net <---Vote so I'll update more than once a year. http://ace01071.web1000.com/complaints.html http://myspace.com/euphoric_resolve

12-17-2007, 11:19 PM
Ace Negative Creep Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: At a lake. For now. Posts: 520	Considering as how I work as the sound technician for a local church, I happen to know it's used frequently as a metaphor for man's warlike nature. If you want some proof, I'll give you some directions and you can join their Sunday School. Or you could spend 12-13 years in classes devoted to it, then come back and tell me you've found no proof that no one ever used it as a metaphor. Seriously, quit the nitpicking and drop the subject. Emo is a commonly used theme in songs, so I suppose the entire emo genre is cliche. Let's drop it, eh? __________________ You're never truly dead, unless your memory dies with you. http://hack-mind.cjb.net <---Vote so I'll update more than once a year. http://ace01071.web1000.com/complaints.html http://myspace.com/euphoric_resolve