The Election (no not that one, the OTHER one)

jibber · 10-17-2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leeman

First of all, on the note of Liberal leadership for the future, it is clear that Dion will have to end up stepping down, who will replace him? I would think likely Michael Ignatieff, possibly Bob Rae, that is if the people can get over his past mistakes.. Cough Cough. I agree, Justin wouldn't be a bad choice but he is young and relatively new to politics. Personally I think right now it would be a good move for the Liberals and the NDP to merge.

As for the debate, I think it is unfortunate that the Conservatives did not gain a majority government, but I would disagree that it was a complete waste of time and money, although it ended up costing the people of Canada $300 million. On the bright side, the conservatives did manage to gain seats and the Liberals are completely broke...

When it comes to the Green Party, I do share some of the sympathy expressed by Jibber, however I feel that they are comletely unnecessary and I can't help but laugh a little bit that Elizabeth May didn't even win in her own riding. But in all seriousness, the Greens don't even have a platform, they just love the environment. The Bloc just makes me angry, unfortunately our government allows anyone to run, even if they are only running in one province. To Mr. Dave, they reason they are able to pull off so many seats is because of our First Pass the Post electoral system. Another reason they can get so many seats, it isn't particularily hard to win votes if the only place you are riding in will greatly benefit from every decision your party influences and with fifty seats, the Bloc is very powerful.

Carbon Tax... Stupid. I know the Liberals were promising tax breaks for the everyday Canadian, but taxing the big companies will just raise the prices of everything and the extra cash you get back from the government will simply be spent because of the higher prices of products. As well, some companies may even relocate, the few factories that are left won't stick around for higher taxes, this will kill jobs and our GDP.

I think it is clear that I am a staunch conservative, but my personal bias aside, this country has been a majority Liberal government for quite a while now, in a time of economic uncertainty, I think we need to realise that the Conservaitve platform makes the most sense right now. (hmmm, that is actually pretty biased...)

On a side note, the Harper government passed a bill to have elections on regular intervals, like the American system, it seems that the deal was that the next upcoming election was exempt from this seeing as Harper called this last one. Do we expect this to take effect now? Will the next election be in four years?

I'll agree with you on basically every point except for the carbon tax. yes right now it makes no sense, but sooner or later we will need to wake up to the fact that we can't go burning up fossil fuels at the rate we are now. We need restrictions as to what we put in our environment.

I don't believe our economy would suffer all that much. Companies are going to have to change sooner or later, regardless of where they operate. There's not many untapped oil sources in the world left, and those that have no yet been developed are mostly located in countries who's government and political climate can be called volatile at best. Most companies want to operate in a stable, predictable political climate, which Canada certainly offers. Canada is one of the worst nations in the western world when it comes to greenhouse emissions and the lack of restrictions. we need to start putting an emphasis on this.

WendyCal · 10-18-2008, 04:15 AM

i'm so sorry ~ that was rude, crude and socially unacceptable of me and i appologize for trolling your thread.

Leeman · 10-18-2008, 07:41 AM

Fair enough. I think there might be some truth behind what you said. I just don't think the Carbon Tax is a good idea right now with our economy in such a fragile state. Although I still don't think it is a good idea, who knows maybe we will look back in 30 years and realise that Dion was ahead of his time, but to me, the Carbon Tax seems like a bad idea.

jibber · 10-18-2008, 02:20 PM

I doubt if anyone will look back and say Dion was "ahead of his time." Well they may, in the fact that he is taking a good idea, and trying to implement it in a time that is so utterly wrong. As I've said, I do agree that it certainly could not be implemented right now.

It'll certainly be interesting to see what happens with the Liberal party after this. I can see one of two possible scenarios. Once conjecture is that they will go through a complete and very public reconstruction, and of course fire Dion in the process. This might be drastic enough, and if the new leader actually wakes up to the fact thats the economic power of the country has shifted from the east to the west (especially once this economic crash really starts to hit Canada), it may be enough to swing the vote back in the direction of the Liberals for the majority government.

Or, they could keep going in the exact same way, (even with a new leader, as I doubt Dion will survive much longer as head of the party) and sink further and further until the conservatives can manage a majority government.

I don't however feel that our economy will feel the effects of the crash as much as the US. Yes, 80% of our exports go to the US, but, we are in a far better position in the sense that we are not currently spilling billions of dollars into a war. Yes, we are involved in Afghanistan, but it is not costing us even in the same ballpark as the war in Iraq and Afghanistan is costing the US. Furthermore, Canada has huge amounts of oil, and the US, not so much. Yes, the fact is that oil prices are dropping drastically, but, demand will always be there. We have a much more stable economy than the US, and do not have nearly the same debt. We should be able to weather it much better than America.

mr dave · 10-18-2008, 02:42 PM

dion already scheduled a press meeting to step down a few days ago. it's not if but when, he's either done on monday or sticking around until they find a new leader.

he might be a little loopy but i doubt he'd stick around and suffer through the public humiliation and internal bickering that would surely follow the liberal party's performance last week while they choose a new leader.

sleepy jack · 12-26-2008, 03:18 AM

The good ole' days.

mr dave · 12-26-2008, 01:25 PM

ahhh yes, back when most people thought dion had finally found a modicum of reason in his head before making a baseless power grab.

putting pressure on the conservatives regarding short term fiscal changes in hopes to get them changed = sane.

trying to be appointed PM due to a lack of long term planning in regards to the collaplse of the big 3 before having any clue of what / if the US would bail them out. = dion.

10-18-2008, 04:15 AM	#12 (permalink)
WendyCal Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 271	i'm so sorry ~ that was rude, crude and socially unacceptable of me and i appologize for trolling your thread. Last edited by WendyCal; 10-19-2008 at 11:38 AM.

10-18-2008, 07:41 AM	#13 (permalink)
Leeman Groupie Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 22	Fair enough. I think there might be some truth behind what you said. I just don't think the Carbon Tax is a good idea right now with our economy in such a fragile state. Although I still don't think it is a good idea, who knows maybe we will look back in 30 years and realise that Dion was ahead of his time, but to me, the Carbon Tax seems like a bad idea. __________________ ~Leeman

10-18-2008, 02:20 PM	#14 (permalink)
jibber Freeskier Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Istanbul was Constantinople now it's Istanbul not Constantinople... Posts: 1,536	I doubt if anyone will look back and say Dion was "ahead of his time." Well they may, in the fact that he is taking a good idea, and trying to implement it in a time that is so utterly wrong. As I've said, I do agree that it certainly could not be implemented right now. It'll certainly be interesting to see what happens with the Liberal party after this. I can see one of two possible scenarios. Once conjecture is that they will go through a complete and very public reconstruction, and of course fire Dion in the process. This might be drastic enough, and if the new leader actually wakes up to the fact thats the economic power of the country has shifted from the east to the west (especially once this economic crash really starts to hit Canada), it may be enough to swing the vote back in the direction of the Liberals for the majority government. Or, they could keep going in the exact same way, (even with a new leader, as I doubt Dion will survive much longer as head of the party) and sink further and further until the conservatives can manage a majority government. I don't however feel that our economy will feel the effects of the crash as much as the US. Yes, 80% of our exports go to the US, but, we are in a far better position in the sense that we are not currently spilling billions of dollars into a war. Yes, we are involved in Afghanistan, but it is not costing us even in the same ballpark as the war in Iraq and Afghanistan is costing the US. Furthermore, Canada has huge amounts of oil, and the US, not so much. Yes, the fact is that oil prices are dropping drastically, but, demand will always be there. We have a much more stable economy than the US, and do not have nearly the same debt. We should be able to weather it much better than America. __________________ What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road. William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass. HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER