The Refugee crisis

Trollheart · 05-15-2015, 01:24 PM

I was going to post about this in my "Those crazy ****ing Irish!" thread, but I feel it needs a wider audience and anyway, it's not just about Ireland.

How do you feel about this?

I watched the news yesterday to see that there's a boat of hundreds or more refugees fleeing I think Syria (but not sure) stuck out in the Indonesian sea. Thailand doesn't want them, nor do any of the other countries around there. They have in fact been towed BACK OUT TO SEA by the navy of Thailand rather than allow them to berth there and disembark. The crew has now deserted them and they are literally drifting helpless with no food or water. Some have died and their bodies have been thrown overboard, others are drinking their own urine to try to survive. Whole families, whose only crime is they don't want to stay in a war-torn country and risk being killed, are being refused entry to any country that could provide them safe haven.

Ireland has agreed to take an additional 300 refugees, and today I heard three old bigots at the bus stop complaining about how we have to take them in. So much for Christian Ireland! I almost said something but I would have ended up in a fight so held my tongue. But if their attitude is typical of Irish people (and we are quite racist, no matter what anyone says or thinks) then I did wonder how everyone else feels about it?

If you country is/was going to take in refugees, are you/would you be for or against it? And why do you feel that way? Do you think we should help these people or just say it's none of our business and leave it to others? Would you want a refugee family living near you? Would you welcome them? Would you accuse them of "just being out for all they can get" (as per my trio of racists today) or would you want to show them compassion and understanding?

It's a prickly situation with few resolutions, but how do you all feel about it? Is enough being done for them? Is too much being done for them? Is it a case of they took their chances so **** them? Would you pay a small extra tax to support them, or do you feel it's nothing to do with you? Have you any experience of this?

I'd be interested to hear opinions, and I'll try to keep calm, but I'm boiling mad as I recall the attitude of my fellow Irishmen (and women) earlier today...

fiddler · 05-15-2015, 01:31 PM

I don't personally see what the issue would be with having refugees living right beside you. They're humans, just like me & you, and I personally can't say I blame them for taking their chances on getting out of the country. Really you have two options: eventually be killed or otherwise in the war, or take your chances fleeing the country. Help them get on their feet, help them on their way to rebuild and restart. The trio you encountered are members of a dying breed, I think.

grtwhtgrvty · 05-15-2015, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiddler

I don't personally see what the issue would be with having refugees living right beside you. They're humans, just like me & you, and I personally can't say I blame them for taking their chances on getting out of the country. Really you have two options: eventually be killed or otherwise in the war, or take your chances fleeing the country. Help them get on their feet, help them on their way to rebuild and restart. The trio you encountered are members of a dying breed, I think.

Well obviously there are economic and cultural issues, the latter stemming from the hyper-segregation of Europe & the Middle East. That's the reason why there are such bad race problems in countries like Sweden -- an ultra nationalistic mindset coupled with very progressive social reforms causes a great deal of strife when middle eastern immigrants come a knockin', from cultural differences to economic problems to crime.

Not to mention that the real problem is Syria itself. I mean what are we supposed to do when the entirety of Syria shows up at our doorstep? Obviously you can't turn them away, from a humanitarian standpoint, but letting them in is a bandaid that causes a great many problems for the country they integrate into.

Ideally, Syria should get it's **** together so we don't have to manage and house their civilians and do their job as a country for them. You're (generalizing here) hypothetically doubling your workload as a country, and creating huge cultural strife while you're doing it. Obviously the right thing to do is to give them passage into your country, but the liberal mindset that there are no problems that come from this is very childish and immature. Everytime you do anything, a problem is caused by it.

There are two sides to every coin and pretending that we can just let them in with no problems whatsoever is just... a fantastical idealist perspective that has no place in reality or logic.

fiddler · 05-15-2015, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grtwhtgrvty

Well obviously there are economic and cultural issues, the latter stemming from the hyper-segregation of Europe & the Middle East. That's the reason why there are such bad race problems in countries like Sweden -- an ultra nationalistic mindset coupled with very progressive social reforms causes a great deal of strife when middle eastern immigrants come a knockin', from cultural differences to economic problems to crime.

Not to mention that the real problem is Syria itself. I mean what are we supposed to do when the entirety of Syria shows up at our doorstep? Obviously you can't turn them away, from a humanitarian standpoint, but letting them in is a bandaid that causes a great many problems for the country they integrate into.

Ideally, Syria should get it's **** together so we don't have to manage and house their civilians and do their job as a country for them. You're (generalizing here) hypothetically doubling your workload as a country, and creating huge cultural strife while you're doing it. Obviously the right thing to do is to give them passage into your country, but the liberal mindset that there are no problems that come from this is very childish and immature. Everytime you do anything, a problem is caused by it.

There are two sides to every coin and pretending that we can just let them in with no problems whatsoever is just... a fantastical idealist perspective that has no place in reality or logic.

Oh I realize there would be problems caused from it, I would have only have a brain if I thought otherwise. But the way I view it, and always has is that problems that occur can be worked through with a little bit of grease on the right wheels. The alternative to helping them is doing nothing, and just letting them drift hoping someone else will shoulder the burden. What when no help comes? Do you just allow them to die?

Cultural differences will ALWAYS be an issue in society. I believe, however, that if you get to know someone and take the time to see them as people and not as "them", you begin to see that cultural lines are exactly that, lines in the sand. They're just lines we have drawn around ourselves, not a ten story wall that has been thrown up to keep you apart.

To me the burden of allowing someone's unnecessary death is a far greater burden to bear than that of the extra burden to help them. Of course, if Syria could get their **** together to start with, that'd be outstanding but...uh...forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 05-15-2015, 03:18 PM

I am a staunch supporter of controlled immigration, there are only so many people that can live on our small island, however I'd rather have 800 people living here than drowning cos their boat capsized in the Mediterranean Sea.

The Batlord · 05-15-2015, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeytennis

I am a staunch supporter of controlled immigration, there are only so many people that can live on our small island, however I'd rather have 800 people living here than drowning cos their boat capsized in the Mediterranean Sea.

I don't think you know where Thailand is.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 05-15-2015, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I don't think you know where Thailand is.

I know where Thailand is you twat

. TH isn't asking just about this incident.

Mediterranean capsized migrant boat captain faces charges - BBC News

Did you not hear about this? Before the election it was discussed whether we should let these people into the UK which is why I mentioned it.

Trollheart · 05-15-2015, 05:46 PM

Yeah, Thailand is just the latest. We've had reports of boats capsizing, crews deserting, people dying all over the seas of Europe, and now Thailand too. I;'m afraid to say that the person who opined that the people I overheard are a dying breed is ill-informed. Most of us Irish are like that, probably like the English after so many immigrants have come over here and "stolen our women and our jobs" (never mind that half us Irish are too ****ing lazy to even try out for these jobs, would prefer living on the dole! How dare these foreigners work? And of course if they go on welfare, well...)

I said it already, and I'll repeat it. Despite our happy-go-lucky image we in Ireland are some of the most racist bastards going. I know that what I heard is indicative of the majority. If there were to be a referendum tomorrow asking if we should help, I'll bet anything it would be defeated.

Trollheart · 05-16-2015, 04:39 AM

Now we have Thailand saying any who make it onshore (not quite sure how this works? Maybe brought there by other vessels than the ones they set out in? Rescue ships? Coastguard?) can stay, but any who drift in will be turned around and sent back out to sea. How can they do this, knowing they're condemning their fellow human beings to a slow and agonising death from starvation and thirst and exposure? Is there no humanity in these people? If Thailand has say an earthquake like Nepal (god forbid) they'd be whining for aid but they won't offer it to those in desperate need?

The Batlord · 05-16-2015, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Now we have Thailand saying any who make it onshore (not quite sure how this works? Maybe brought there by other vessels than the ones they set out in? Rescue ships? Coastguard?) can stay, but any who drift in will be turned around and sent back out to sea. How can they do this, knowing they're condemning their fellow human beings to a slow and agonising death from starvation and thirst and exposure? Is there no humanity in these people? If Thailand has say an earthquake like Nepal (god forbid) they'd be whining for aid but they won't offer it to those in desperate need?

We have the same policy going for Cuban refugees. We can't just let them in all willy nilly, but we feel too bad to send them back when we actually have to do all the paperwork and put them on our own boats with our own immigration/Coast Guard personnel.

05-15-2015, 01:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	The Refugee crisis I was going to post about this in my "Those crazy **ing Irish!" thread, but I feel it needs a wider audience and anyway, it's not just about Ireland. How do you feel about this? I watched the news yesterday to see that there's a boat of hundreds or more refugees fleeing I think Syria (but not sure) stuck out in the Indonesian sea. Thailand doesn't want them, nor do any of the other countries around there. They have in fact been towed BACK OUT TO SEA by the navy of Thailand rather than allow them to berth there and disembark. The crew has now deserted them and they are literally drifting helpless with no food or water. Some have died and their bodies have been thrown overboard, others are drinking their own urine to try to survive. Whole families, whose only crime is they don't want to stay in a war-torn country and risk being killed, are being refused entry to any country that could provide them safe haven. Ireland has agreed to take an additional 300 refugees, and today I heard three old bigots at the bus stop complaining about how we have to take them in. So much for Christian Ireland! I almost said something but I would have ended up in a fight so held my tongue. But if their attitude is typical of Irish people (and we are quite racist, no matter what anyone says or thinks) then I did wonder how everyone else feels about it? If you country is/was going to take in refugees, are you/would you be for or against it? And why do you feel that way? Do you think we should help these people or just say it's none of our business and leave it to others? Would you want a refugee family living near you? Would you welcome them? Would you accuse them of "just being out for all they can get" (as per my trio of racists today) or would you want to show them compassion and understanding? It's a prickly situation with few resolutions, but how do you all feel about it? Is enough being done for them? Is too much being done for them? Is it a case of they took their chances so ** them? Would you pay a small extra tax to support them, or do you feel it's nothing to do with you? Have you any experience of this? I'd be interested to hear opinions, and I'll try to keep calm, but I'm boiling mad as I recall the attitude of my fellow Irishmen (and women) earlier today... __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

05-15-2015, 05:46 PM	#8 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	Yeah, Thailand is just the latest. We've had reports of boats capsizing, crews deserting, people dying all over the seas of Europe, and now Thailand too. I;'m afraid to say that the person who opined that the people I overheard are a dying breed is ill-informed. Most of us Irish are like that, probably like the English after so many immigrants have come over here and "stolen our women and our jobs" (never mind that half us Irish are too ***ing lazy to even try out for these jobs, would prefer living on the dole! How dare these foreigners work? And of course if they go on welfare, well...) I said it already, and I'll repeat it. Despite our happy-go-lucky image we in Ireland are some of the most racist bastards going. I know that what I heard is indicative of the majority. If there were to be a referendum tomorrow asking if we should help, I'll bet anything it would be defeated. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018*

05-16-2015, 04:39 AM	#9 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	Now we have Thailand saying any who make it onshore (not quite sure how this works? Maybe brought there by other vessels than the ones they set out in? Rescue ships? Coastguard?) can stay, but any who drift in will be turned around and sent back out to sea. How can they do this, knowing they're condemning their fellow human beings to a slow and agonising death from starvation and thirst and exposure? Is there no humanity in these people? If Thailand has say an earthquake like Nepal (god forbid) they'd be whining for aid but they won't offer it to those in desperate need? __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

05-15-2015, 01:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
fiddler Music Addict Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 242	I don't personally see what the issue would be with having refugees living right beside you. They're humans, just like me & you, and I personally can't say I blame them for taking their chances on getting out of the country. Really you have two options: eventually be killed or otherwise in the war, or take your chances fleeing the country. Help them get on their feet, help them on their way to rebuild and restart. The trio you encountered are members of a dying breed, I think.

05-15-2015, 03:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	I am a staunch supporter of controlled immigration, there are only so many people that can live on our small island, however I'd rather have 800 people living here than drowning cos their boat capsized in the Mediterranean Sea.