What if? (lyrics, punk, great song, albums, The Ramones)

jr. · 03-30-2006, 07:13 PM

The idea of this thread is to make people think. My intention is that this thread be a sort of hypothetical situation discussion. Feel free to answer the questin posed, or post one of your own.

I have seen some grumblings that all the music talk has dried up, so hopefully, this will make people think about music.

Ok, I will post the first question.

I find the song "American Idiot" by Green Day to be a great song. It's got a lot of energy, and 'snub your nose at authority' lyrics.

I have heard a lot of people bash Green Day for being soft punk, or whatever it's called.

My question is, what would the average punk fan's opinion of American Idiot be if say, The Ramones, or The Sex Pistols, had written and recorded it?

**sleepy jack** · 03-30-2006, 07:16 PM

I think alot of people dislike the song for the fact of what green day stand for. I mean yeah you diss america for alot of reasons blah blah thats all good. Then you go and wear eyeliner and dress like a trendy hot topic goth. All the hype they get for it and press doesn't help the love for it either

Now more to the question, I doubt the ramones would do something like that to be honest they we're never very political. If the sex pistols did it, then alot of average punk fans would probaly be all over it and praise it. Because a "true punk band" did it, as opposed to an "MTV punk band" doing it. Then again alot of average punk bands have a hate for the sex pistols because of that whole mess they are.

Muzak · 03-30-2006, 07:40 PM

I agree that most people bash Green Day because of their new style mostly.

My question is, what if The Aquabats and The Hippos started out with their newest albums (The Aquabats are now new age punk-thing, The Hippos are now synth pop). Would they be more popular?

**Urban Hatemonger** · 03-30-2006, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr.

My question is, what would the average punk fan's opinion of American Idiot be if say, The Ramones, or The Sex Pistols, had written and recorded it?

I`d put it down to them having a bad day.

But in seriousness the problem with it is it sounds like exactly the same as every other song they`ve ever recorded and after about 6 or however many albums it just gets dull.The Pistols made one album & dissapeared , they never let that happen.It could be said the ramones are guilty of what green day are too but I never really liked them much either , apart from that album they recorded with Phil Spector and I liked that because it was different.

CityLightsLikeRain · 03-30-2006, 08:08 PM

I still stand by Green Day. They are still making good music. They got more commercial than some would like, they didnt "sell out" sicne that term is being thrown around so much. If the Sex Pistols did it, I think it would have been ****ing sweet though. Green Day did good, but Sex Pistols could've done better.

~~Mamagarmr~~ · 03-30-2006, 08:11 PM

^ i used to like you.....

Merkaba · 03-30-2006, 08:30 PM

No one likes Green Day because they're trying to do something they're not. Or at least they're trying to do it but they have no vindication. If the Ramones tried to do American Idiot, they would do it their way, and people would love it because it's the Ramones, it's what people come to expect from them. When Greenday did it, all I thought was man this is crap, it doesn't sound like Greenday. Probably didn't help when the DJ said it was the biggest song of the year eather.

Choosing a supercar, what do you pick: The purebred Ferarri or the no frills Mazda? Can Mazda even make supercars?

Point being, you recognise a band based on what it has done, what it is renowned for, what you can expect to gain from listening to them.

Greenday, by doing something new, took a risk. Frankly they ballsed up but if they continue with this new style I'm sure they can create a taste for it and maybe one day produce the next American Idiot, that everyone will like, based on what they've come to expect.

IndiElectronica · 03-31-2006, 03:11 AM

indeed.. If Green Day happend to write the best Pop song ever, I'd still think it was ****.

jr. · 03-31-2006, 03:43 AM

I don't understand the Green Day hating. No one likes Green Day because they're trying to do something they're not? What does that mean? Is it because they don't fit into one's description of punk? How does anyone, except for Green Day themselves, know for sure what Green Day is trying to do?

Maybe I'm missing something, I don't know. I always thought a band was just being a band. It's the public at large that seems to want to fit bands into a certain genre, and have a certain amount of distain when a band doesn't fit neatly into it.

So anyway, I guess people get hung up on image or whatever.

Next question, anyone?

Crowe · 03-31-2006, 04:26 AM

Someone in the other thread said it best "It has become trendy to bash on Green Day" It's the truth. Bashers don't think for themselves, they take recycled put downs from the lips of people and use it as if they came up with the thought independantly. They aren't allowed to form the opinion for themselves, or else it would ruin their "street-cred". Of course these people will deny this...

"Of course I can form my own thoughts! They are this and this and this!"

Recycled put downs.

The best example of this is 14 and 15 year olds saying that they aren't punk and they sold out. That's when you know it has become the trend - these people weren't walking or talking when Kerplunk! was released, yet they put this act like they've been following them from the beginning and watched them "Sell out".

I can understand if someone says they don't like the music. Not my kinda thing, not my taste, etc etc. I don't understand, and in fact think it's retarded when people put Green Day down for changing their musical style, and the content of their lyrics. You often hear, I like their old stuff... but not their new stuff.

Every band will get caught in this Catch 22. If they keep making the same sound of music people will call them a one trick pony. All their stuff sounds the same, etc. But if they change people will say they sold out. Doing it for the money. Sometimes this may be true. I don't think it is with Green Day. They aren't 17 anymore, they aren't going to sing about masturbation or getting high all day. They are 30 years old... a 30 year old caring about politics and singing about it? THAT IS UNHEARD OF. The new musical style? So the f*ck what? They are trying new things - experimenting with sounds from vaudeville and musical theater... creating a Rock Opera.

As for their style and the "Hot Topic" comment. Do you still wear the same stuff you did when you were 5 years old? No. Your style has changed. So has theirs.

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03-30-2006, 07:13 PM
jr. Seeker of Peace Join Date: May 2005 Location: Newark, De. Posts: 348	What if? The idea of this thread is to make people think. My intention is that this thread be a sort of hypothetical situation discussion. Feel free to answer the questin posed, or post one of your own. I have seen some grumblings that all the music talk has dried up, so hopefully, this will make people think about music. Ok, I will post the first question. I find the song "American Idiot" by Green Day to be a great song. It's got a lot of energy, and 'snub your nose at authority' lyrics. I have heard a lot of people bash Green Day for being soft punk, or whatever it's called. My question is, what would the average punk fan's opinion of American Idiot be if say, The Ramones, or The Sex Pistols, had written and recorded it? __________________ Be strong then, and enter into your own body; there you have a solid place for your feet. ~ Kabir

03-30-2006, 07:16 PM
sleepy jack Bone Machine Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Jesusland Posts: 17,327	I think alot of people dislike the song for the fact of what green day stand for. I mean yeah you diss america for alot of reasons blah blah thats all good. Then you go and wear eyeliner and dress like a trendy hot topic goth. All the hype they get for it and press doesn't help the love for it either Now more to the question, I doubt the ramones would do something like that to be honest they we're never very political. If the sex pistols did it, then alot of average punk fans would probaly be all over it and praise it. Because a "true punk band" did it, as opposed to an "MTV punk band" doing it. Then again alot of average punk bands have a hate for the sex pistols because of that whole mess they are. __________________ You're so evil and I'm so good, I'll make it up to you someday.

03-30-2006, 07:40 PM
Muzak Music Addict Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,000	I agree that most people bash Green Day because of their new style mostly. My question is, what if The Aquabats and The Hippos started out with their newest albums (The Aquabats are now new age punk-thing, The Hippos are now synth pop). Would they be more popular?

03-30-2006, 08:08 PM
CityLightsLikeRain Sunsetter Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 1,060	I still stand by Green Day. They are still making good music. They got more commercial than some would like, they didnt "sell out" sicne that term is being thrown around so much. If the Sex Pistols did it, I think it would have been ****ing sweet though. Green Day did good, but Sex Pistols could've done better. __________________ ...I think I ate your chocolate squirrel...

03-30-2006, 08:11 PM
~~Mamagarmr~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Left of the Left Posts: 2,535	^ i used to like you.....

03-30-2006, 08:30 PM
Merkaba Whitewater! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 2,820	No one likes Green Day because they're trying to do something they're not. Or at least they're trying to do it but they have no vindication. If the Ramones tried to do American Idiot, they would do it their way, and people would love it because it's the Ramones, it's what people come to expect from them. When Greenday did it, all I thought was man this is crap, it doesn't sound like Greenday. Probably didn't help when the DJ said it was the biggest song of the year eather. Choosing a supercar, what do you pick: The purebred Ferarri or the no frills Mazda? Can Mazda even make supercars? Point being, you recognise a band based on what it has done, what it is renowned for, what you can expect to gain from listening to them. Greenday, by doing something new, took a risk. Frankly they ballsed up but if they continue with this new style I'm sure they can create a taste for it and maybe one day produce the next American Idiot, that everyone will like, based on what they've come to expect. __________________ Right you lot, shut it. Strewth Fowler my son, all looks a bit pear-shaped round here or what. The govenor's talking, Saturday's game, very dodgy, very naughty, could go a little pear-shaped. If there's a rough things might be well iffy. These faces are a little bit hard, know what I mean, a little bit of oof, have some of that my son, bosh, sorted, ta ta, got me, so be clever. Good, now shut it!

03-31-2006, 03:11 AM
IndiElectronica Music Addict Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 602	indeed.. If Green Day happend to write the best Pop song ever, I'd still think it was ****. __________________ Check out my Radio Station at: http://www.indielectronicaonline.com

03-31-2006, 03:43 AM
jr. Seeker of Peace Join Date: May 2005 Location: Newark, De. Posts: 348	I don't understand the Green Day hating. No one likes Green Day because they're trying to do something they're not? What does that mean? Is it because they don't fit into one's description of punk? How does anyone, except for Green Day themselves, know for sure what Green Day is trying to do? Maybe I'm missing something, I don't know. I always thought a band was just being a band. It's the public at large that seems to want to fit bands into a certain genre, and have a certain amount of distain when a band doesn't fit neatly into it. So anyway, I guess people get hung up on image or whatever. Next question, anyone? __________________ Be strong then, and enter into your own body; there you have a solid place for your feet. ~ Kabir

03-31-2006, 04:26 AM
Crowe Music Addict Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago/St. Louie Posts: 711	Someone in the other thread said it best "It has become trendy to bash on Green Day" It's the truth. Bashers don't think for themselves, they take recycled put downs from the lips of people and use it as if they came up with the thought independantly. They aren't allowed to form the opinion for themselves, or else it would ruin their "street-cred". Of course these people will deny this... "Of course I can form my own thoughts! They are this and this and this!" Recycled put downs. The best example of this is 14 and 15 year olds saying that they aren't punk and they sold out. That's when you know it has become the trend - these people weren't walking or talking when Kerplunk! was released, yet they put this act like they've been following them from the beginning and watched them "Sell out". I can understand if someone says they don't like the music. Not my kinda thing, not my taste, etc etc. I don't understand, and in fact think it's retarded when people put Green Day down for changing their musical style, and the content of their lyrics. You often hear, I like their old stuff... but not their new stuff. Every band will get caught in this Catch 22. If they keep making the same sound of music people will call them a one trick pony. All their stuff sounds the same, etc. But if they change people will say they sold out. Doing it for the money. Sometimes this may be true. I don't think it is with Green Day. They aren't 17 anymore, they aren't going to sing about masturbation or getting high all day. They are 30 years old... a 30 year old caring about politics and singing about it? THAT IS UNHEARD OF. The new musical style? So the f*ck what? They are trying new things - experimenting with sounds from vaudeville and musical theater... creating a Rock Opera. As for their style and the "Hot Topic" comment. Do you still wear the same stuff you did when you were 5 years old? No. Your style has changed. So has theirs. __________________ My silly experimental band: www.myspace.com/boyfromthestarsmusic