Your Music "Range" (funk, indie, metal, pop)

mjscarousal · 12-07-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowquill

If Michael Jackson is so timeless why has he kept changing his sound to fit the modern times? Oh that's right because if he released Thriller today it wouldn't go anywhere why? It doesn't fit today's music market, it fits the 80s music market and he's released only three albums which are considered classics, the rest he's released are just crap. I don't even like Bad, Off the Wall or Thriller, in fact I think they're trash. If an artist isn't very consistent it takes away from his talent and legend status. Besides, I think it's fairly obvious Quincy Jones is the real talent there. You admitted Michael Jackson released alot of crap, funny how as soon as you take Quincy out of the picture all thats left is the crap.

For the record, this is ridiculous and your not giving MJ credit at all. MJ's music is definitly timeless and always will be. People are STILL playing Billie Jean, Don't stop till you get enough, The way you make me feel, Black or white, You are not alone, Butterflies,(notice every single song I mention is taken from every MJ album) Thriller doesn't fit todays music market because music today is CRAP. Its not about quality music, once again its about whats sells. People don't care about good music anymore, they buy the ish.People don't care about making good music anymore. This goes for ALL the classics but back on topic people are still bumpin all of MJ songs and even Jackson 5/ The Jacksons song. ALL MJ albums were real good. You can only make a real tru honest opinion until you exactly listened to ALL his albums, which I'm pretty sure you haven't. The ONLY one you we can probably argue is Invincible thats it but even still I love Invincible, definitly not his best but it wasn't a bad album. Why does Quincy Jones always end up in the mix when were talking about MJ? Quincy and Mike back in the day were a great pair they made history. Why do you keep making it seem like because of Quincy MJ is successful, bull ish, MJ was already successful long before he worked with Quincy. He just really wanted to work with him because he was a hot producer and it turned out the match was successful but once again MJ wrote just about ALL those songs on the three albums Q helped produced. Billie Jean, Beat It, The Way you make me feel, wanna be startin somethin, don't stop till you get enough all of those HITS were written by Michael Jackson. Stop hatin and just give the man credit. MJ deserves everything he has received and achieved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowquill

So? Paris Hilton covered a variety of genres on her album i'm not going to considered her talented for it. Pop artists commonly throw out a few songs in each genre, it doesn't make them good or versatile.

Plse lets not mix apple and oranges. My whole point was MJ is very diverse he didn't always sing popular music as he is really known for. He did other things. Like Prince, mixed funk, jazz etc. Of course people with NO TALENT who do random crap on a album of course its crap. Somebody like MJ has REAL genius talent so what kind of comparision was that? You keep putting MJ in some low mediocre category when he is MUCH more than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowquill

Like what? Make some influential music videos? Give me a break music videos suck, very few artists treat it as an artform most just use it as an excuse to show as much female skin as possible.

Ahh.. hell yea and its no give me a break, MJ made some tight a$$ vids the videos out TODAY suck booty, bitch and whine about them but MJ exactly created art and a story line. Music videos do suck the ones out now but MJ's are tight. He influenced music, through music, songwriting, dance, he broke alot records, once again I talked about this already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowquill

We've gotten into this debate before, the only credible artist he influenced was Wu Tang Clan and he only influenced one of their members so that isn't exactly vital is it? If you took Michael Jackson out of the picture I doubt RZA would sound very different. Other notable artists you named consisted of Madonna, Janet Jackson, Boys II Men, Celine Dion, Coldplay and Evanescene. A great and credible gang right?

Once again, this whole he influenced a bunch of crap artists is stupid. So did Aretha Franklin, So did the Beatles, So Led Zepplin, EVERY artist influences other artists. Some are crap, some are talented, thats human nature bro. Why are you just making it seem like its ONLY Michael Jackson who influenced crap artists when there other great acts that have to. Janet is good, Boys II Men is good the rest I can live without I just mentioned them because they were influenced by MJ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowquill

Wrong, Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye are actually important to the music world. If Thriller, Bad and Off the Wall never came out we probably wouldn't be dealing with the Madonnas and Timberlakes of the world. Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye have proven to be consistent without the help of producers. Here, My Dear is probably my second favorite Marvin Gaye album guess when that came out? Twenty years after What's Going On. Michael Jackson isn't going to release anything credible unless Quincy Jones decide to starting writing for him again.

No your wrong, the reason why we have the Madonnas and Timberlakes has nothing to do with MJ. Why do you keep blaming the state of the music industry on MJ? its bull. The reason why we have so many Timberlakes aka "Michael Jacksons clones" because there is no real talent. Their still at the stage where you imitate an artist your influenced by and they don't push to be INNOVATIVE. There impersonaters and a water down version of the real thing. There is no real talent which leads me to why there is so many Madonnas. For the record, Madonna is aight but she is overrated but getting on point, Madonna really can't sing but she did what she had to do to get on top. She had the appeal charisma and the right producers, song writers to produce her stuff for her. So that kinda started a trend thats why so much is not taken seriously any more in the music world. Real music doesn't matter and if you have the right look and you appeal to alot of people, who cares if your song sounds terrible or if you can't exactly sing. They give out grammies like its candy to anybody, its ridiculous. I'm not blaming HER but I can see ur point. I don't think its MJ fault either. I think its because its been a decline in people wanting good music and people making good music. The record companies sign anybody now, its sad. MJ wrote his OWN songs, his OWN hits and when him and Q had a divorced produced his own stuff. Mike was fair game and was in the biz since he was 5, by the time he started workin with Q he could have produced OTW,BAD, Thriller by his self but he WANTED to work with Q. In BAD, anyway he was really into producing the tracks with Q.

Wayfarer · 12-07-2007, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowquill

I like to rock my body and bring the sexy back just as much as the next guy but that doesn't mean I think he's credible artist.

Yeah...actually, it's not so much Timberlake I like, just Timbaland's production on Justin's latest album. It's friggin' godly.

**sleepy jack fire drill** · 12-07-2007, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjscarousal

For the record, this is ridiculous and your not giving MJ credit at all. MJ's music is definitly timeless and always will be. People are STILL playing Billie Jean, Don't stop till you get enough, The way you make me feel, Black or white, You are not alone, Butterflies,(notice every single song I mention is taken from every MJ album)

So? People are still listening to one Motley Crue, a defining 80s hair metal band. Are you going to start calling them timeless? Timeless would be something like the Beatles, Tortoise or Primal Scream something you could listen to TODAY and despite the fact it was made decades ago it still sounds like it could've been made yesterday. Michael Jackson isn't timeless at all oh and the reason i'm not giving him credit is because he doesn't deserve any. Quincy Jones deserve it all. As I stated before I find it funny how the only three albums Michael Jackson made that people talk about were the ones that Quincy Jones produced and helped write and we don't even know just how much he helped write but i'm willing to bet he did more than Michael Jackson did on it. The only thing timeless about Michael Jackson is his police record and how many childrens minds hes scarred and ruined over there at Neverland Ranch.

Quote:

Thriller doesn't fit todays music market because music today is CRAP. Its not about quality music, once again its about whats sells. People don't care about good music anymore, they buy the ish.People don't care about making good music anymore.

People don't care about good music anymore? So A Silver Mt. Zion, The Flaming Lips, Okkervil River, Belle and Sebastian, Belle Orchestra, Radiohead, Andrew Bird, The Shins, Ampere, Emily Haines and the Soft Skeleton, Circle Takes the Square, The Polyphonic Spree, Sigur Rós, Final Fantasy, Black Moth Super Rainbow, Morrissey, Panda Bear, CocoRosie, Art Brut, Grizzly Bear, Hello Saferide, Jens Lekman, Animal Collective, Xiu Xiu, Built to Spill, The Raveonettes, Adam Green, Alina Simone, Camera Obscura, Someone Still Loves You Boris Yeltsin, The City on Film, Bishop Allen, Page France, Patrick Wolf, Sondre Lerche, Fruit Bats and litterally hundres of other artists who spent months and months writing and refining their sound and releasing albums hailed as modern classics are all crap and don't care about making quality music? How about you go and learn something about music before you walk around dropping such incredibly ignorant, no not just ignorant STUPID statements as that. Music is just as good today as it was twenty years ago, hell i'd actually consider it better now than it was in the eights when your beloved Michael Jackson was in his prime. Thanks to indepedent record labels and the internet artists have more room to be creative without having to worry about no one hearing about them. Creativity and succes can no go hand in hand, something the music industry hasn't seen in a long time.

Quote:

This goes for ALL the classics but back on topic people are still bumpin all of MJ songs and even Jackson 5/ The Jacksons song. ALL MJ albums were real good.

Yeah...I addressed this already with the Motley Crue point. People are still buying Sunny and Cher albums, still buying Donny and Marie albums are you going to argue those artists are timeless? Just because you listened to crappy music in the 80s doesn't mean you're suddenly going to start listening to good music in the 00s, hell you're probably STILL going to be listening to the crap you liked back when. Music tastes of the average radio fan don't change. I still know people that listen to the Backstreet Boys and Britney Spears, are they timeless?

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You can only make a real tru honest opinion until you exactly listened to ALL his albums, which I'm pretty sure you haven't. The ONLY one you we can probably argue is Invincible thats it but even still I love Invincible, definitly not his best but it wasn't a bad album.

I am not going to force myself to listen to the sonic crap that is Michael Jackson, even his "good" stuff is boring and no, people can argue alot of Michael Jackson albums suck. I think everything he's done has sucked. Are you going to tell me i'm not allowed to say that because I have to give him 'credit'? I think he released nothing but pop crap that pleased the masses at the time and the editors of Rolling Stone later.

Quote:

Why does Quincy Jones always end up in the mix when were talking about MJ?

BECUASE HE PRODUCED AND HELPED WRITE MICHAEL JACKSON'S THREE MOST CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED ALBUMS, THAT IS WHY!

Quote:

Quincy and Mike back in the day were a great pair they made history. Why do you keep making it seem like because of Quincy MJ is successful, bull ish, MJ was already successful long before he worked with Quincy. He just really wanted to work with him because he was a hot producer and it turned out the match was successful but once again MJ wrote just about ALL those songs on the three albums Q helped produced. Billie Jean, Beat It, The Way you make me feel, wanna be startin somethin, don't stop till you get enough all of those HITS were written by Michael Jackson. Stop hatin and just give the man credit. MJ deserves everything he has received and achieved.

Why should I? He doesn't deserve any, he doesn't make good music he makes popular music. The only information i've been able to finds on Michael Jackson's supposed songwriting skills is he plays "multiple instruments" NEVER do they name which instrument and he didn't play anything in the Jackson 5 either so there's no backing there. I am not going to give a product like Michael Jackson any credit. He isn't even an artist, he makes dull pop music for the masses just because he's managed to do it since the 70s doesn't make him any better than 50 Cent or Jennifer Lopez.

Quote:

Plse lets not mix apple and oranges. My whole point was MJ is very diverse he didn't always sing popular music as he is really known for. He did other things. Like Prince, mixed funk, jazz etc. Of course people with NO TALENT who do random crap on a album of course its crap. Somebody like MJ has REAL genius talent so what kind of comparision was that? You keep putting MJ in some low mediocre category when he is MUCH more than that.

No he isn't and don't care Prince and Michael Jackson if you want to talk about apples and oranges. Prince is a talented musician, Michael Jackson isn't. Michael Jackson doesn't play any instruments that i've seen and his 'songwriting' is probably just his lyrics and if you consider "No one wants to be defeated / Showing how funky and strong is your fight / It doesn't matter who's wrong or right / Just beat it" good lyrics then you need to get your head check.

Quote:

Ahh.. hell yea and its no give me a break, MJ made some tight a$$ vids the videos out TODAY suck booty, bitch and whine about them but MJ exactly created art and a story line. Music videos do suck the ones out now but MJ's are tight. He influenced music, through music, songwriting, dance, he broke alot records, once again I talked about this already.

Michael Jackson invent videos with storyline and art? I highly doubt that, MTV didn't invent music videos you realize that right? They just popularized them and there's a huge difference between popularizing and inventing.

Quote:

Once again, this whole he influenced a bunch of crap artists is stupid. So did Aretha Franklin, So did the Beatles, So Led Zepplin, EVERY artist influences other artists. Some are crap, some are talented, thats human nature bro. Why are you just making it seem like its ONLY Michael Jackson who influenced crap artists when there other great acts that have to. Janet is good, Boys II Men is good the rest I can live without I just mentioned them because they were influenced by MJ.

Okay i'm going to break this down for you because i've debated this several times already with you and you keep replying with the same argument and I don't know if you just don't understand or if you're just too thick to comprehend what i'm saying. Here we go ready?

HE INFLUENCED ONE ARTIST WORTH INFLUENCING, THE REST ARE POP SHIT. BOY II MEN IS AWFUL, SO IS JANET. EVERY ARTIST YOU NAMED HAS CONTRIBUTED NOTHING TO MUSIC AND ARE NOT GOOD WITH THE EXCEPTION OF WU TANG CLAN. HE INFLUENCED ONE OF 9 RAPPERS OUT OF THAT GROUP. MICHAEL JACKSON HAS INFLUENCED, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF RZA, NO ONE OF ANY MUSICAL IMPORTANCE. THIS STATEMENT ISN'T CONCRETE, IT COULD CHANGE OVERTIME YEAH BUT SO FAR YOU'VE YET TO NAME ANY ARTIST, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF RZA, WORTH NAMING. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

**sleepy jack fire drill** · 12-07-2007, 10:24 PM

Quote:

No your wrong, the reason why we have the Madonnas and Timberlakes has nothing to do with MJ. Why do you keep blaming the state of the music industry on MJ? its bull. The reason why we have so many Timberlakes aka "Michael Jacksons clones" because there is no real talent. Their still at the stage where you imitate an artist your influenced by and they don't push to be INNOVATIVE. There impersonaters and a water down version of the real thing. There is no real talent which leads me to why there is so many Madonnas. For the record, Madonna is aight but she is overrated but getting on point, Madonna really can't sing but she did what she had to do to get on top. She had the appeal charisma and the right producers, song writers to produce her stuff for her. So that kinda started a trend thats why so much is not taken seriously any more in the music world. Real music doesn't matter and if you have the right look and you appeal to alot of people, who cares if your song sounds terrible or if you can't exactly sing. They give out grammies like its candy to anybody, its ridiculous. I'm not blaming HER but I can see ur point. I don't think its MJ fault either. I think its because its been a decline in people wanting good music and people making good music. The record companies sign anybody now, its sad. MJ wrote his OWN songs, his OWN hits and when him and Q had a divorced produced his own stuff. Mike was fair game and was in the biz since he was 5, by the time he started workin with Q he could have produced OTW,BAD, Thriller by his self but he WANTED to work with Q. In BAD, anyway he was really into producing the tracks with Q.

Madonna sucks, she has no talent. I don't understand how you can say shes "aight" and admit she doesn't sing. Seeing as she doesn't produce or write anything, she's essentially an object for the music industry to use however they please. Madonna didn't do shit, she'd be nowhere without her record label oh and once again, please stop making sweeping generalizations about the current state of music because you've shown you don't really know much about it at all.

I am so tired of talentless pop artists getting credit while better artists and bands sit here unnoticed. You sit there and preach about how great Michael Jackson is and place him alongside Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder but if Michael Jackson had never showed up the great bands of today wouldn't be affected in the slightest. If Michael Jackson never showed up the big four would've found some other black guy turned white pedophile to push down our throats for thirty years and Rolling Stone would've found another 80s pop album to put on their 500 to look open-minded or just keep going on about "back in the day." I am so tired of hearing about how great Thriller was, it wasn't great. It was a boring pop album, it wasn't timeless. The only thing timeless about Michael Jackson is his reliance on better producers and writers to make popular records, not even good records, just popular ones.

**Seltzer** · 12-08-2007, 05:35 AM

Funny comparisons mainly from my top 100 last.fm artists.

Windir vs RHCP
Elliott Smith vs Meshuggah
Camel vs Death
Caspian vs Herbie Hanc0ck
Mahavishnu vs Gorguts
Converge vs Sonata Arctica
Autopsy vs Arcade Fire
Mono vs Destroyer 666
Alice in Chains vs David Bowie
Too $hort vs Gong
Arcturus vs Kyuss
The Kinks vs Spiral Architect
The Eagles vs Vader
King Crimson vs John Frusciante
At the Drive-In vs Karl Sanders
Beatles vs Falkenbach
Judas Priest vs Infected Mushroom
Robert Palmer vs Joe Satriani
Neil Young vs Isis
Robbie Williams vs Intestine Baalism
Godflesh vs String Cheese Incident
Shostakovich vs Miners of Moria

Raw & Funky · 12-08-2007, 08:43 AM

Genres I listen to...(based on my mp3 player, 372 songs in total)

Alternative Rock
Techno-Fusion
Jazz-Blues-Cool
Mystical
Funk-Soul-Disco
Classic
Latin
Trip-Hop
Oldschool Folk
Hip Hop-Hardcore
Psycadelic
R&B

**jackhammer** · 12-08-2007, 09:05 AM

I love Michael Jackson fans, they just can't handle any criticism of the floppy nosed kiddy fiddler at all can they?

djchameleon · 12-08-2007, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackhammer

I love Michael Jackson fans, they just can't handle any criticism of the floppy nosed kiddy fiddler at all can they?

I don't think it's that they can't handle any criticism...it's that the criticism of his musical affect on most artists is always biased based on his personal life....

The Jackson Five and MJ with his solo albums have influenced so many people but his ****ty personal life almost outshadows all the work he has done over the decades. Every R&B artist takes things that MJ has done.

**jackhammer** · 12-08-2007, 09:14 AM

^^
That's one of the problems though. There is a lot of crap in RNB music and it is so generic that someone has to be held responsible!

**Urban Hatemonger** · 12-08-2007, 09:22 AM

I'm willing to give him credit for Off The Wall which is a rather good album if i'm in the mood for simplistic pop music.

Other than that had Jackson never existed I doubt my record collection would be poorer for it , whatever his influence.

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12-08-2007, 05:35 AM
Seltzer Mellifluous... Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Born in Australia, Living in New Zealand Posts: 1,414	Funny comparisons mainly from my top 100 last.fm artists. Windir vs RHCP Elliott Smith vs Meshuggah Camel vs Death Caspian vs Herbie Hanc0ck Mahavishnu vs Gorguts Converge vs Sonata Arctica Autopsy vs Arcade Fire Mono vs Destroyer 666 Alice in Chains vs David Bowie Too $hort vs Gong Arcturus vs Kyuss The Kinks vs Spiral Architect The Eagles vs Vader King Crimson vs John Frusciante At the Drive-In vs Karl Sanders Beatles vs Falkenbach Judas Priest vs Infected Mushroom Robert Palmer vs Joe Satriani Neil Young vs Isis Robbie Williams vs Intestine Baalism Godflesh vs String Cheese Incident Shostakovich vs Miners of Moria __________________ Last.fm Last edited by Seltzer : 12-08-2007 at 05:42 AM.

12-08-2007, 08:43 AM
Raw & Funky Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: X World Posts: 46	Genres I listen to...(based on my mp3 player, 372 songs in total) Alternative Rock Techno-Fusion Jazz-Blues-Cool Mystical Funk-Soul-Disco Classic Latin Trip-Hop Oldschool Folk Hip Hop-Hardcore Psycadelic R&B Last edited by Raw & Funky : 12-08-2007 at 09:02 AM.

12-08-2007, 09:05 AM
jackhammer A Cabled Discount Join Date: May 2007 Location: U.K Posts: 3,950	I love Michael Jackson fans, they just can't handle any criticism of the floppy nosed kiddy fiddler at all can they? __________________ My music collection.cough cough enjoy. Ha Ha charade you are. My dvd collection.

12-08-2007, 09:14 AM
jackhammer A Cabled Discount Join Date: May 2007 Location: U.K Posts: 3,950	^^ That's one of the problems though. There is a lot of crap in RNB music and it is so generic that someone has to be held responsible! __________________ My music collection.cough cough enjoy. Ha Ha charade you are. My dvd collection.

12-08-2007, 09:22 AM
Urban Hatemonger Groovy Hate F*ck Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Nuuk , Greenland Posts: 8,986	I'm willing to give him credit for Off The Wall which is a rather good album if i'm in the mood for simplistic pop music. Other than that had Jackson never existed I doubt my record collection would be poorer for it , whatever his influence. __________________