When is the artist no longer really the artist?

Arya Stark · 08-08-2013, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

Well I'm willing to be proved wrong

Here's a list page!
Kanye West production discography - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are actually a lot of amazing songs on here that are some old faves of mine.

"You don't know my name" by Alicia Keys? COME ON, YOU HAVE TO LOVE THAT SONG.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-08-2013, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Justin Bieber – Never Say Never – The Remixes

I LOVE this album.

Nahh just kidding

Arya Stark · 08-08-2013, 09:36 AM

Don't lie. I know you love Justin Bieber.

lol
But there are a lot of other songs on there, you didn't like ANY?

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-08-2013, 09:40 AM

I don't think I've heard any of them.
Me & Hip Hop sort of parted ways sometime around 2003.

FRED HALE SR. · 08-08-2013, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Here's a list page!
Kanye West production discography - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are actually a lot of amazing songs on here that are some old faves of mine.

"You don't know my name" by Alicia Keys? COME ON, YOU HAVE TO LOVE THAT SONG.

I do love that song. I also really like the John Legend song Used to love You. I can even appreciate the Kweli song Get By. I've never understood the super stardom of KW I think his downfall at least to my ears is Overproduction. I feel like his sound is artificial and seemingly lifeless. His Rhymes bore me also.

With regard to the artist not being the artist any longer, It really boils down to the factors that Urban and Jansz were discussing. I don't believe major labels will allow the freedom they used to with artists and almost invite the collaboration aspect because they see dollar signs. I can't really fault their reasoning, but I think its more of a major act problem then it is an indie problem.

Wilstar · 08-08-2013, 02:55 PM

Hey there im new to all this but i also love kanyes music, it is aparant that even big producers like kanye have co prod etc but i think he has the creation of piecing it all together.

I am an artist myself and i dont produce my beats but look for the connection when i hear them then fully implement what i need to put across as i am recording.

Astronomer · 08-09-2013, 01:34 AM

I think that when it gets to the point where the songs were written, produced, whatever by a whole range of different people and the "artist" credited for the song is merely performing it, they are no longer truly an artist. I have a lot of issues with this. A few artists I used to really love have become quite mainstream and have all of their songs written for them, all they really do is perform them. In which case I would identify them as a performer, rather than an artist.

sopsych · 08-12-2013, 12:36 PM

Rod Stewart is a hall-of-famer, yet I think his 'solo' albums are Rod Stewart & Friends. Many of his hits have been written by or with others, and many of them wouldn't have been hits without the excellent backing musicians. I don't know if Rod even plays any instruments in-studio or on tour (which Justin Bieber has done).

Another example: Carlos Santana is a true artist via his guitar-playing, but his chart career is built around collaborations, like Parsons did it.

~~butthead aka 216~~ · 08-12-2013, 11:27 PM

good question in this topic

hmmmm

well i guess its always the artist for me because if i am willing to lay blame and criticize the artist for a bad album or song even though many others had a part in it then i think i should be willing to credit them when its good.

as for kanye, he went under the radar producing for years so if a lot of people are helping him now and hes getting over credited then i think its only right

Bulldog · 08-13-2013, 02:11 AM

I think legally songwriting credits are given to the writer of the melody and lyrics...I might be wrong, as I can't actually remember where I read that, but if that's true then the artist is always the artist no matter how many people are involved, at least legally-speaking.

I don't listen to Kanye, so I can't really speak for this album you brought up in the OP, but it sounds like a pretty extreme example of having outside influence on an album's creative direction. Kinda reminds me of the early days of Scritti Politti in the 70s, how they'd have about a legion of people writing songs under the Scritti Politti credit, many of whom didn't actually play a note on the song they were writing.

But often I think of an artist making his/her/their album as being like a director making a movie. For all the other people you have to rely on to get things from A to B, all the people who might have ideas of their own about the project, all the external pressure that you might be under from producers, execs, members of your own band or even yourself, it's still someone's creative vision that's driving the project to completion, and as such it'll pretty much always end up as something like that initial vision (at least under ideal circumstances...doesn't always quite work like that, of course). Even if that creative vision of the individual artist involved having gazillions of producers and co-writers chip in to proceedings themselves.

...and for give the disjointed nature of the above text...hungover...bleh

08-08-2013, 09:40 AM	#24 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,605	I don't think I've heard any of them. Me & Hip Hop sort of parted ways sometime around 2003. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.

08-09-2013, 01:34 AM	#27 (permalink)
Astronomer we are stardust Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 2,894	I think that when it gets to the point where the songs were written, produced, whatever by a whole range of different people and the "artist" credited for the song is merely performing it, they are no longer truly an artist. I have a lot of issues with this. A few artists I used to really love have become quite mainstream and have all of their songs written for them, all they really do is perform them. In which case I would identify them as a performer, rather than an artist. __________________

08-12-2013, 12:36 PM	#28 (permalink)
sopsych Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: indoors Posts: 722	Rod Stewart is a hall-of-famer, yet I think his 'solo' albums are Rod Stewart & Friends. Many of his hits have been written by or with others, and many of them wouldn't have been hits without the excellent backing musicians. I don't know if Rod even plays any instruments in-studio or on tour (which Justin Bieber has done). Another example: Carlos Santana is a true artist via his guitar-playing, but his chart career is built around collaborations, like Parsons did it. __________________ If you have ideas or feedback for the site, visit The Musicbanter Improvement Thread. Last edited by sopsych; 08-12-2013 at 12:47 PM.

08-08-2013, 02:55 PM	#26 (permalink)
Wilstar Groupie Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 1	Hey there im new to all this but i also love kanyes music, it is aparant that even big producers like kanye have co prod etc but i think he has the creation of piecing it all together. I am an artist myself and i dont produce my beats but look for the connection when i hear them then fully implement what i need to put across as i am recording.

08-12-2013, 11:27 PM	#29 (permalink)
~~butthead aka 216~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: freely swimmin thru the waters of glory much like a majestic bald eagle soars thru the skies Posts: 1,463	good question in this topic hmmmm well i guess its always the artist for me because if i am willing to lay blame and criticize the artist for a bad album or song even though many others had a part in it then i think i should be willing to credit them when its good. as for kanye, he went under the radar producing for years so if a lot of people are helping him now and hes getting over credited then i think its only right

08-13-2013, 02:11 AM	#30 (permalink)
Bulldog why bother? Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 4,840	I think legally songwriting credits are given to the writer of the melody and lyrics...I might be wrong, as I can't actually remember where I read that, but if that's true then the artist is always the artist no matter how many people are involved, at least legally-speaking. I don't listen to Kanye, so I can't really speak for this album you brought up in the OP, but it sounds like a pretty extreme example of having outside influence on an album's creative direction. Kinda reminds me of the early days of Scritti Politti in the 70s, how they'd have about a legion of people writing songs under the Scritti Politti credit, many of whom didn't actually play a note on the song they were writing. But often I think of an artist making his/her/their album as being like a director making a movie. For all the other people you have to rely on to get things from A to B, all the people who might have ideas of their own about the project, all the external pressure that you might be under from producers, execs, members of your own band or even yourself, it's still someone's creative vision that's driving the project to completion, and as such it'll pretty much always end up as something like that initial vision (at least under ideal circumstances...doesn't always quite work like that, of course). Even if that creative vision of the individual artist involved having gazillions of producers and co-writers chip in to proceedings themselves. ...and for give the disjointed nature of the above text...hungover...bleh