Soulflower

Hey Music banter

Okay, so I have commonly witnessed on most music forums/sites that music listeners tend to define the terms "Icon" and "Legend" differently. While these terms are in the same family, they both mean two different things but I often see these terms used interchangeably when they should not be.

I know music opinions are subjective, however, it appears these terms are universally defined with objective measures or criteria.

Here are my opinions on the word Icon and Legend.



You don't become an Icon just because you are popular at a certain given time. That is not what makes a singer Iconic. People tend to automatically associate a singer being popular at a certain time with being iconic and it is not the same. This is a common misconception people make with the word Icon and legend which is why I feel these words have lost their true meanings.

There are plenty of singers and artists that were very popular during their time, won awards and sold out stadiums but they are not icons likewise there are some that did not win a lot of awards or sold out stadiums but they are still considered legendary and Iconic. (i.e Marvin Gaye)


What makes a singer or artist an icon in my opinion is something they have created that is iconic that is associated with them and has becomes apart of pop culture and forever associated with that person good or bad. That is what makes them iconic because they become a symbol of something that they did that we the public associate with. (i.e. albums, attire, performances etc)

For example,Michael Jackson of course, you guys know I love this man. His glitter socks, glitter white glove, black high waters, black fedora, black loafers, black glitter jacket with white glitter arm band (we automatically associate those things with Michael Jackson because of the iconic moment when he first showcased this to the world during the Motown 25 performance (which was/is also iconic)


A Legend is an artist that has made groundbreaking contributions to the music industry that has made a significant cultural impact on music and pop culture. Their music is classic, timeless as well as their videos and performances. Their material is very generational and influences generations which is what makes them legendary. They will always be a present figure in pop culture as a result (whether alive or not).




I don't think there are any Icons or Legends in this pop generation of pop stars. None of them have any Iconic albums, performances or moments that resonates with the public let alone legendary.

Okay now your turn! lol What do you think? What is your opinions on these definitions? Do you think they are objective or subjective? Which one is the more prestigious title?

James

I think Beyonce will be viewed as pretty iconic in a generations time.

Soulflower

I disagree.

You don't become Iconic "through time". You become Iconic by doing Iconic things, making Iconic music, having Iconic moments etc

But I am interested to know why you think this being she has not produced one Iconic song, Iconic album, or moment in pop culture that has been groundbreaking from generations to come. Her music is disposable as well as her image/performances (bootleg Tina Turner)

She is overrated and pure hype

But I am interested in hearing your opinion.

Mondo Bungle

An icon for me is someone/thing that is very easily associated with, in this case, a certain type of music. Like if someone brings up pop music, there'd be this list of acts that immediately springs to mind, they'd be icons. That's how I see it at least. Justin Bieber is a pop icon and you know it.

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James

I do think she is quite overrated but she is iconic. Her image and her music has inspired countless young girls into feminism. The way her persona has been created is an art in itself almost. Her music videos and live performances have led her to be one of the most powerful and strongest women in the world right now. That iconic image certainly shines through in her music too.
And to boot she's got some great songs. I firmly believe songs like Crazy In Love and especially Countdown are iconic and will one day be legendary.

Soulflower

No actually I don't.

Being popular and being Iconic are two different things. This is the misconception that I am speaking that the casual listener falls for.

Okay, what are his Iconic songs?

I can't think of any songs this child has done off the top of my head.

What are his Iconic groundbreaking songs?

Pet_Sounds

An icon, to me, is someone whose image and persona embody a specific movement or culture. A legend is anyone who makes lasting music. Jimi Hendrix is an icon, Eric Clapton is a legend.

Not to mention the rumours about Obama.

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Soulflower

Thanks for yours opinions!

Dressing half naked in music videos and parading around sexually is feminism to you?

Is that feminism to you because her brand markets it as such or is it feminism because that is what YOU think feminism is?

According to the real theory of feminism that is not what it represents.

She doesn't represent feminism and she has not "influenced girls towards feminism" that is just a fancy term she titled for her brand.

Its called marketing. I would advise you to look up what the term feminism actually means. I actually was meaning to start a thread on it here related to that in regards to music.

How so?

She comes across very vapid, boring and shows no charisma off stage.

So not sure how her is "persona" Iconic

Her stage persona is definitely not original which is why I don't get your legendary assumptions. She pretty much copies from Tina Turner and Janet Jackson. I also do not think she is a good dancer. Booty shaking is not dancing.

An example of an artist who had an Iconic persona would be Michael Jackson. He had a larger than life persona but that is because he was unique, had charisma and was interesting Beyonce is neither of those things.


Beyonce has million dollar marketing but none of her albums have sold above 5 million. Her album sells are poor and being popular at the at the moment still does not necessarily make someone an Icon.


IMO it does not. Her music is very boring as well as her personality.
She is not "interesting." Hell, Janelle Monae has a more interesting persona and of course music.


If that is your opinion I can respect it but I think her music sucks and she doesn't have any classic albums or songs.

Where is the Iconic groundbreaking music that will be remembered like the previous Icons before her?

She is just hype.

I don't think those songs are groundbreaking enough to call them legendary. Those songs simply have not impacted music to the point they are impeded in our culture.

Soulflower

When I think of an Iconic song first songs that come to mind is a song like "Marvin Gaye's What's Going On" or Michael Jackson's Thriller (For Iconic Album)

They still having meaning even for this generation not just during their respective era's.

No singer out now has made that same impact.

James

It doesn't matter what I think feminism is, totally irrelevant. The point is she's brought it into the mainstream, and that will be having an affect on many young girls (and boys) even unconsciously.
Stage shows, what makes a classic album, a groundbreaking song - that's all subjective and not what makes an icon in my book. An icon speaks to a large body of people, changes things.
Beyonce is one of the biggest stars right now, and she certainly has potential to keep the momentum going. As well as looking strong and sexually liberated, her and Jay have this kind of Liz Taylor and Richard Burton power couple thing going on.
I love Countdown, one of my favourite songs of the last few years. The video is beautifully shot. The cuts are seem less and some of the decor and dancing is really interesting. Influenced by a variety of different styles. And she's certainly not half'naked and 'booty shaking' (which is dancing BTW, by definiton).
Hell, even the song is pretty cool the way it frequently changes tempo and time signature.