Is it okay to steal a riff and make a different song out of it?

Dylstew · 02-22-2015, 06:08 AM

Okay let's say there's a little riff in one part of a song. However this is not at all part of the main melodies of the song. Let's say the riff slowed down sounds pretty cool. If you then make a song where that riff slowed down is the main melody, is that okay? I mean, it would be a totally different song, but it's still using the exact same riff you didn't come up with. Would that be okay?

Key · 02-22-2015, 10:34 AM

Lots of bands do it so I don't see the problem.

Black Francis · 02-22-2015, 10:46 AM

Hard to say, i guess it depends on the individual copying the riff, if he knows he straight up knows he ripped of a song and he doesn't care, then he's the kinda guy who doesn't really care about making his own original compositions.

You can be influenced by good bands and riffs but when you consciously steal from them you'll always know the credit for your song belongs to them not you.

More than the opinion of others on whether it is morally right to steal a riff, to me what really matters is the artistic integrity of the individual making the song.

I don't think you can force integrity on musicians, that something they need to have on their own.

I personally don't care much about this unless i feel the guy just straight up ripped a popular song to recycle a popular hit.
that's the only instance where this kinda thing bothers me.

Zyrada · 02-22-2015, 10:53 AM

Depends on how much you make it your own. What "making it your own" means exactly is obviously highly subjective and needs to be determined on a case-by-case basis. Slowing a riff down (rhythmic augmentation) is probably enough to qualify.

It's also essentially the whole point of lead sheets. You take a basic framework written by someone else and expand upon it in a new way, and depending on how much you do to alter the sound of the chart, it becomes your own interpretation. It's what makes harmonic recontextualization so fun. You take a riff or a melody and change the underlying chords in a way that makes everything else sound completely different.

Key · 02-22-2015, 10:56 AM

You also have to take in consideration the amount of times artist in the hip hop industry use certain riffs and parts of a song as samples for their own song.

Black Francis · 02-22-2015, 11:08 AM

Ive made songs i recognise have been obvious rip offs of a song i liked.

ive caught myself thinking: "This sounds like an Elliot smith tune" and it doesn't matter if other ppl don't make that distinction when they hear the song TO ME it will always kinda sound like i ripped him off so i'll scrap the song.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ki

You also have to take in consideration the amount of times artist in the hip hop industry use certain riffs and parts of a song as samples for their own song.

Somehow i don't mind it as much when they do it in hip hop cause usually they put a different spin on it with different lyrics.

Sampling has always been a thing in hip hop/rap music so i don't mind it.

Pet_Sounds · 02-22-2015, 11:14 AM

It worked pretty well for The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Green Day, and Radiohead.

Plainview · 02-22-2015, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pet_Sounds

It worked pretty well for The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Green Day, and Radiohead.

Go on then, I'll bite, what did each rip? I know The Beatles were largely 'inspired' to some degree by Roy Orbison and Bobby Parker (and I'd argue I Feel Fine sounds like What'd I Say too). Zeppelin possibly ripped Taurus but I dunno what else. Green Day I've no idea but it wouldn't surprise me, and Radiohead again I'm not sure. Specifics?

Pet_Sounds · 02-22-2015, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plainview

Go on then, I'll bite, what did each rip? I know The Beatles were largely 'inspired' to some degree by Roy Orbison and Bobby Parker (and I'd argue I Feel Fine sounds like What'd I Say too). Zeppelin possibly ripped Taurus but I dunno what else. Green Day I've no idea but it wouldn't surprise me, and Radiohead again I'm not sure. Specifics?

Beatles: "I Feel Fine" ripped off Bobby Parker's "Watch Your Step", not to mention "Come Together" lifted some Chuck Berry lyrics.
Zep: Taurus was the one I was thinking of. I'm no expert on them, but I'm pretty sure they also lifted old blues riffs all the time.
Radiohead: "Karma Police" piano riff sounds awfully like "Sexy Sadie". Plus that business with the Hollies over "Creep".
Green Day: The "American Idiot" riff is lifted from a Dilinger Four song. Don't remember its name now.

02-22-2015, 06:08 AM	#1 (permalink)
Dylstew Music Addict Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,366	Is it okay to steal a riff and make a different song out of it? Okay let's say there's a little riff in one part of a song. However this is not at all part of the main melodies of the song. Let's say the riff slowed down sounds pretty cool. If you then make a song where that riff slowed down is the main melody, is that okay? I mean, it would be a totally different song, but it's still using the exact same riff you didn't come up with. Would that be okay?

02-22-2015, 10:46 AM	#3 (permalink)
Black Francis Out of Place Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: in an abstract house Posts: 4,111	Hard to say, i guess it depends on the individual copying the riff, if he knows he straight up knows he ripped of a song and he doesn't care, then he's the kinda guy who doesn't really care about making his own original compositions. You can be influenced by good bands and riffs but when you consciously steal from them you'll always know the credit for your song belongs to them not you. More than the opinion of others on whether it is morally right to steal a riff, to me what really matters is the artistic integrity of the individual making the song. I don't think you can force integrity on musicians, that something they need to have on their own. I personally don't care much about this unless i feel the guy just straight up ripped a popular song to recycle a popular hit. that's the only instance where this kinda thing bothers me. __________________ "Hey Kids you got to meet the MIGHTY PIXIES!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbRbCtIgW3A Last edited by Black Francis; 02-22-2015 at 10:55 AM.

02-22-2015, 10:53 AM	#4 (permalink)
Zyrada Avant-Gardener Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Inside your navel gazing back at you Posts: 163	Depends on how much you make it your own. What "making it your own" means exactly is obviously highly subjective and needs to be determined on a case-by-case basis. Slowing a riff down (rhythmic augmentation) is probably enough to qualify. It's also essentially the whole point of lead sheets. You take a basic framework written by someone else and expand upon it in a new way, and depending on how much you do to alter the sound of the chart, it becomes your own interpretation. It's what makes harmonic recontextualization so fun. You take a riff or a melody and change the underlying chords in a way that makes everything else sound completely different. __________________ dietdeathdrink.flac.fm

02-22-2015, 11:14 AM	#7 (permalink)
Pet_Sounds Remember the underscore Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: The other side Posts: 2,489	It worked pretty well for The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Green Day, and Radiohead. __________________ Everybody's dying just to get the disease

02-22-2015, 10:34 AM	#2 (permalink)
Key . Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 13,153	Lots of bands do it so I don't see the problem.

02-22-2015, 10:56 AM	#5 (permalink)
Key . Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 13,153	You also have to take in consideration the amount of times artist in the hip hop industry use certain riffs and parts of a song as samples for their own song.