Noise/Experimental music: can someone explain it to me?

DeadChannel · 05-21-2015, 07:38 PM

I agree with most what's been posted, but I want to add that a lot of this stuff takes some aclimating to. For instance, Eric Dolphy aside, most people have to work up to something like free jazz. Most people don't like Peter Brotzman at first because they lack the context to interpret it. More often than not, you revisit a piece that you originally found really insurmountable, and you end up finding to not be a big deal.

You just need to exercise those mental music muscles for this type of stuff. A lot.

Machine · 05-21-2015, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadChannel

I agree with most what's been posted, but I want to add that a lot of this stuff takes some aclimating to. For instance, Eric Dolphy aside, most people have to work up to something like free jazz. Most people dony

Honestly I'm still not completely sure on free jazz and I've tried for a while, there's some I really love and then other stuff that I can't help but burst out laughing when I hear it.

DeadChannel · 05-21-2015, 07:47 PM

Hey, sorry about accidentally sending the post before it was finished. I edited it now.

Personally, I'm not super into free jazz, although I have a few favourites that I regularly spin. I haven't listened to as much jazz as I'd like though. Although, recently I went on a binge that got me into a few things.

Machine · 05-21-2015, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadChannel

Hey, sorry about accidentally sending the post before it was finished. I edited it now.

Personally, I'm not super into free jazz, although I have a few favourites that I regularly spin. I haven't listened to as much jazz as I'd like though. Although, recently I went on a binge that got me into a few things.

That's basically how I am

Trollheart · 05-22-2015, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machine

To me noise and expiremental music is best listened to when I'm looking to be disturbed not by a poet or songwriter and their daily turmoil, but instead through sound. I like music that's ugly and twisted so noise music really fits the bill for me. Like listening to Totem by White Suns in a pitch black room with my eyes wide open and volume all the way up was an absolutely brutal expirience and one I don't think I'll be able to recreate with the same magic. Like a bunch of people have said before me, it's less about the structure or visibility of the piece, but instead the overwhelming apocalyptic nature a lot of harsh noise music can grasp. Where I'll listen to punk to get out energy, or listen to pop when I'm happy, I listen to noise when I want something that hurts that actually forms a negitive reaction inside of me. Call it masochistic, but it works.

See, that literally never happens to me. I have never been, nor ever expect to be, in a position where I want music (for want of another phrase) so loud and abrasive and atonal that it hurts me. I don't enjoy it, and since there's no melody in this anyway, if I for some reason did want that, why not go listen to a guy use an angle grinder on sheet metal for hours?

Aux-In · 05-22-2015, 06:10 PM

Trollheart, do you like the sound of someone cutting grass with a mower? That is nothing but loud noise, but it's one of those "life noises" that I enjoy because it evokes images and scenery in my brain that I wouldn't otherwise get from silence. Sometimes those types of sounds, as well as other types of sounds found in nature (I think that was mentioned to you previously) can be enjoyable to listen to because they can take you to a different place...provoking images in your brain just from the sound alone. In that sense, it would be using the music to evoke the feeling, which is somewhat different from simply listening to music because it sounds good to your ear. City sounds would be the same.

innerspaceboy · 05-22-2015, 06:21 PM

TH, I enjoy experimental music for the cerebral engagement of it all. It's music you interact with, perhaps consciously and deliberately the first few times, and perhaps later just existing in the environment of the sounds. Try a piece like pianoforte by Dick Raaijmakers (aka Kid Baltan) and Tom Dissevelt. It's a treated piano composition, and they really explore the range of sounds once can create with the instrument.

The more familiar you become with the piece, the more key sounds or clusters of sounds develop a logical and concrete identity in your memory - you'll find yourself waiting for specific crescendos or rests. But remember - it's just a bunch of noise, right?

Josef K · 05-23-2015, 08:47 AM

I like stuff that sounds cool.

Trollheart · 05-23-2015, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aux-in

Trollheart, do you like the sound of someone cutting grass with a mower? That is nothing but loud noise, but it's one of those "life noises" that I enjoy because it evokes images and scenery in my brain that I wouldn't otherwise get from silence. Sometimes those types of sounds, as well as other types of sounds found in nature (I think that was mentioned to you previously) can be enjoyable to listen to because they can take you to a different place...provoking images in your brain just from the sound alone. In that sense, it would be using the music to evoke the feeling, which is somewhat different from simply listening to music because it sounds good to your ear. City sounds would be the same.

Sometimes. If it's in the distance it can be nice, if it's next door it can be annoying As I say, I listen to plenty of non-music noise, but I don't like loud, discordant, abrasive noise. I wouldn't for instance lean out of my window and listen to the raucous cry of a magpie, someone bawling drunkenly in the street (yes, this is Ireland!) or somebody smashing glass with a hammer...

grtwhtgrvty · 05-24-2015, 04:04 AM

I actually think that noise as a genre is rather boring and repetitive and very one dimensional. Viewing noise as a genre, I have zero interest in it. When I view noise as an element of music, as a technique... It becomes much more interesting. To me, noise is just another element of sound.

As a genre, noise is probably the most uninteresting and predictable to me. People try to claim that noise is unconventional but from a meta perspective, noise is absolutely conventional. I think it is best when treated as another element of music (rhythm, melody, harmony, noise, etc)

Noise in of itself is completely uninteresting. What is interesting about noise is the interaction between it and things like melody and rhythm, and the contrast between these elements.

I think that when you single out any element of music and made it the singular, sole aspect of your music, it becomes very boring very quickly. Strict noise music to me is like a big bowl of unseasoned, uncooked onions. That is probably why it is so offputting to you. A lot of people can enjoy onions, but it takes a special kind of person to pull an onion out of bag and start eating it straight up.

When it comes to experimental music in general... Maybe you just don't have the capacity for it. Pretty much 100% of mainstream, accessible music is just streamlined from something once experimental. That's why I find most mainstream music so dull. Because all of it is 15+ years outdated. It's interesting that you don't get how people can really enjoy experimental music, because I don't get how people can be genuinely satisfied by mainstream, unexperimental stuff. It's literally art. Why wouldn't it be experimental?

I can't even put myself in the shoes of a non experimental artist. It's almost abstract to me, the fact that someone can approach art with a conventional ideology.

That's why mainstream, streamlined stuff is so boring to me. It exists solely because of the experimental art that cleared the path for it. If something can be labeled conventional, or non experimental, it means you've heard it before. So what's the point? Obviously it's a more superficial level of enjoyment. I think that non experimental music is very shallow. There's nothing wrong with that, but I think it's important for people to realize how important experimental music actually is. Experimental music exists with or without mainstream, conventional music, but conventional music lives and breathes based on the ebb and flow of experimental sounds.

So I guess that's why I prefer experimental music. Because it's new. Because it's fresh. It's raw and it's pioneering and it's fearless and I just think it's more powerful in every conceivable way. The mainstream, overall, has a tendency to make me feel dead inside. Especially when you make music, or when you're extremely interested in music, you begin to instinctively predict the chord progressions, the rhythms, when the chorus is to happen, what the chorus is going to sound like. It's really boring when you hear the latest mainstream pop hit and you can wrap your brain around it within 15 seconds. I guess if you're not super duper into music or art, that's enough for you, and you aren't really there to have this intense, existential engagement. You're not there to have your perceptions altered. You just want fun, easy music. I have this friend that is really into mainstream Katy Perry level stuff and she isn't pursuing music or art in any conceivable way but she tries to act like she's on my level with music, and that she gets it the way I do, and that music is her life the way it is my life. I kind of just let her think it because I don't want her to feel like I'm degrading her but honestly I find it kind of insulting.

05-21-2015, 07:38 PM	#21 (permalink)
DeadChannel Music Addict Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Canada Posts: 1,259	I agree with most what's been posted, but I want to add that a lot of this stuff takes some aclimating to. For instance, Eric Dolphy aside, most people have to work up to something like free jazz. Most people don't like Peter Brotzman at first because they lack the context to interpret it. More often than not, you revisit a piece that you originally found really insurmountable, and you end up finding to not be a big deal. You just need to exercise those mental music muscles for this type of stuff. A lot. Last edited by DeadChannel; 05-21-2015 at 07:43 PM.

05-22-2015, 06:10 PM	#26 (permalink)
Aux-In Wrinkled Magazine Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: In Time Posts: 467	Trollheart, do you like the sound of someone cutting grass with a mower? That is nothing but loud noise, but it's one of those "life noises" that I enjoy because it evokes images and scenery in my brain that I wouldn't otherwise get from silence. Sometimes those types of sounds, as well as other types of sounds found in nature (I think that was mentioned to you previously) can be enjoyable to listen to because they can take you to a different place...provoking images in your brain just from the sound alone. In that sense, it would be using the music to evoke the feeling, which is somewhat different from simply listening to music because it sounds good to your ear. City sounds would be the same. __________________ Reviews l YouTube Playlist: Another Dimension "All over a bowl of bitter beans."

05-24-2015, 04:04 AM	#30 (permalink)
grtwhtgrvty jiojoijoi Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 398	I actually think that noise as a genre is rather boring and repetitive and very one dimensional. Viewing noise as a genre, I have zero interest in it. When I view noise as an element of music, as a technique... It becomes much more interesting. To me, noise is just another element of sound. As a genre, noise is probably the most uninteresting and predictable to me. People try to claim that noise is unconventional but from a meta perspective, noise is absolutely conventional. I think it is best when treated as another element of music (rhythm, melody, harmony, noise, etc) Noise in of itself is completely uninteresting. What is interesting about noise is the interaction between it and things like melody and rhythm, and the contrast between these elements. I think that when you single out any element of music and made it the singular, sole aspect of your music, it becomes very boring very quickly. Strict noise music to me is like a big bowl of unseasoned, uncooked onions. That is probably why it is so offputting to you. A lot of people can enjoy onions, but it takes a special kind of person to pull an onion out of bag and start eating it straight up. When it comes to experimental music in general... Maybe you just don't have the capacity for it. Pretty much 100% of mainstream, accessible music is just streamlined from something once experimental. That's why I find most mainstream music so dull. Because all of it is 15+ years outdated. It's interesting that you don't get how people can really enjoy experimental music, because I don't get how people can be genuinely satisfied by mainstream, unexperimental stuff. It's literally art. Why wouldn't it be experimental? I can't even put myself in the shoes of a non experimental artist. It's almost abstract to me, the fact that someone can approach art with a conventional ideology. That's why mainstream, streamlined stuff is so boring to me. It exists solely because of the experimental art that cleared the path for it. If something can be labeled conventional, or non experimental, it means you've heard it before. So what's the point? Obviously it's a more superficial level of enjoyment. I think that non experimental music is very shallow. There's nothing wrong with that, but I think it's important for people to realize how important experimental music actually is. Experimental music exists with or without mainstream, conventional music, but conventional music lives and breathes based on the ebb and flow of experimental sounds. So I guess that's why I prefer experimental music. Because it's new. Because it's fresh. It's raw and it's pioneering and it's fearless and I just think it's more powerful in every conceivable way. The mainstream, overall, has a tendency to make me feel dead inside. Especially when you make music, or when you're extremely interested in music, you begin to instinctively predict the chord progressions, the rhythms, when the chorus is to happen, what the chorus is going to sound like. It's really boring when you hear the latest mainstream pop hit and you can wrap your brain around it within 15 seconds. I guess if you're not super duper into music or art, that's enough for you, and you aren't really there to have this intense, existential engagement. You're not there to have your perceptions altered. You just want fun, easy music. I have this friend that is really into mainstream Katy Perry level stuff and she isn't pursuing music or art in any conceivable way but she tries to act like she's on my level with music, and that she gets it the way I do, and that music is her life the way it is my life. I kind of just let her think it because I don't want her to feel like I'm degrading her but honestly I find it kind of insulting. Last edited by grtwhtgrvty; 05-24-2015 at 04:18 AM.

05-21-2015, 07:47 PM	#23 (permalink)
DeadChannel Music Addict Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Canada Posts: 1,259	Hey, sorry about accidentally sending the post before it was finished. I edited it now. Personally, I'm not super into free jazz, although I have a few favourites that I regularly spin. I haven't listened to as much jazz as I'd like though. Although, recently I went on a binge that got me into a few things.

05-23-2015, 08:47 AM	#28 (permalink)
Josef K A Jew on a motorbike! Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 800	I like stuff that sounds cool.