Emotion in Music: Nurture or Nature?

grindy · 01-20-2017, 05:11 PM

What about inherently funny sounds?
Although I've also heard people describe the daxophone's sound as creepy.

EPOCH6 · 01-20-2017, 05:21 PM

I think we should be clear that dangerous vs safe is not equal to angry vs happy, though. As one would imagine, once we move the discussion towards more complex emotions like sadness and happiness the conversation becomes much more difficult, dangerous and safe is easy to understand, higher emotion is not at all.

But, I still think it stands to say that IF a sound can be perceived as inherently dangerous or safe, some other sound can be perceived as inherently happy or sad, it's just going to be a lot harder for us to define what that sound is, especially if the "test subjects" are adult humans that have all been exposed to wildly different conditioning throughout their lives that can't agree on what sounds "sad".

I honestly think those of us with dogs (unfortunately that doesn't include me) ought to conduct some experiments in sound tonight, since they're one of the easiest animals to observe clear happiness or sadness in, and are MUCH less likely to have a "taste" in music than us.

If I were going to try this I wouldn't use music, your dog ain't gonna give a **** what tunes you throw on, too much for Rover to process. See if you can play some sounds out of your speakers that make your dog wag its tail, less obvious sounds, don't just play a video of another dog playing or getting excited, and likewise see if you can find sounds that make your dog bow its head or look worried.

The Batlord · 01-20-2017, 05:41 PM

This reminds me of my cat who would lay on my bed and not give a flying **** if I played brutal death metal.

EPOCH6 · 01-20-2017, 05:50 PM

Precisely why I didn't mention cats, most cats just don't give a **** and hide their emotions behind a perpetually unimpressed stare.

Trollheart · 01-20-2017, 07:11 PM

I'd also like to add that I don't believe any particular instrument is in of itself capable of making us feel happy or sad. I can get just as emotional over a violin passage played on a synth, if played well enough, as I can about the real thing. I think it's more about a mood that's evoked. I could see there being certain guitar passages that would make me emotional ("Cavantina/The Deer Hunter" springs to mind) although it's almost 100% certain that no drummer could move me. Even a fretless bass could have an effect on me, but by the same token, that exact same passage played on say a trumpet or a clarinet might not.

**Frownland** · 01-20-2017, 07:15 PM

Drums on their own, maybe not (although apparently they can settle baby Jesus), but in the context of other instruments it can be one of the most important elements in driving the mood. Here's a good example

Trollheart · 01-20-2017, 07:48 PM

Hmm. I'm not going to listen to a full album to get your point, but I know what you mean, and I've said it before: without drums or at least percussion a lot of songs would not have the impact they have. I know you hate him but think of Phil Collins's "In the air tonight" without that big drum roll, or "We will rock you" without the drum intro. It's a good point, one I had not considered.

Then of course you have the cumulative effect of a whole lot of instruments together, as in an orchestra, or even a pile of voices. Can you deny this is emotional?

or something on a smaller scale

Trollheart · 01-20-2017, 08:20 PM

Is it given though that this will be the case for everyone? A song I may think is sad you might not get the same feeling from, and vice versa. Like I say, for me, it has a lot to do with the subject matter, the lyric: if something unexpected or sad or tragic happens in the story, it may affect me. There's a Dan Fogelberg song which ends with the lovers dying, and it's kind of unexpected and so comes across to me as sad. You might listen and just think "that's a bunch of crap" and get no message from it. You might think a particular, let's say, ambient piece was very moving and sad, I might not. I think a lot of it is definitely down to personal interpretation and how the music makes you as a person feel, while it may not make anyone else feel that way.

01-20-2017, 05:11 PM	#21 (permalink)
grindy . Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: . Posts: 7,201	What about inherently funny sounds? Although I've also heard people describe the daxophone's sound as creepy. __________________ *A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.*

01-20-2017, 07:11 PM	#25 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	I'd also like to add that I don't believe any particular instrument is in of itself capable of making us feel happy or sad. I can get just as emotional over a violin passage played on a synth, if played well enough, as I can about the real thing. I think it's more about a mood that's evoked. I could see there being certain guitar passages that would make me emotional ("Cavantina/The Deer Hunter" springs to mind) although it's almost 100% certain that no drummer could move me. Even a fretless bass could have an effect on me, but by the same token, that exact same passage played on say a trumpet or a clarinet might not. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

01-20-2017, 07:15 PM	#26 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	Drums on their own, maybe not (although apparently they can settle baby Jesus), but in the context of other instruments it can be one of the most important elements in driving the mood. Here's a good example __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

01-20-2017, 07:48 PM	#27 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	Hmm. I'm not going to listen to a full album to get your point, but I know what you mean, and I've said it before: without drums or at least percussion a lot of songs would not have the impact they have. I know you hate him but think of Phil Collins's "In the air tonight" without that big drum roll, or "We will rock you" without the drum intro. It's a good point, one I had not considered. Then of course you have the cumulative effect of a whole lot of instruments together, as in an orchestra, or even a pile of voices. Can you deny this is emotional? or something on a smaller scale __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

01-20-2017, 08:20 PM	#28 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	Is it given though that this will be the case for everyone? A song I may think is sad you might not get the same feeling from, and vice versa. Like I say, for me, it has a lot to do with the subject matter, the lyric: if something unexpected or sad or tragic happens in the story, it may affect me. There's a Dan Fogelberg song which ends with the lovers dying, and it's kind of unexpected and so comes across to me as sad. You might listen and just think "that's a bunch of crap" and get no message from it. You might think a particular, let's say, ambient piece was very moving and sad, I might not. I think a lot of it is definitely down to personal interpretation and how the music makes you as a person feel, while it may not make anyone else feel that way. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018