Molecules

effectively, yes, what's your point? Why dedicate a thread to making the separation between black and white musicians? Does it affect the music?

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Substix
Last FM
'Institutionalised cruelty is one thing. But the twisted brainwrong of a one-off man-mental is quite another.'

sweet_nothing

My point is Rap is punk.

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CAPTAIN CAVEMAN

^shut the **** up

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Quote:

Originally Posted by xx_sadness_xx Fuck your Et Tu Brute, fuck your I Wrote Haikus About Canibalism in Your High School Yearbook, fuck your Saetia and your CTTS, fuck your IWouldSetMyselfOnFireForYou, fuck Antioch Arrow and Orchid. fuck you. Hawthorne Heights is emo and Denis Kucinich isn't a pussy socialist. Good day sir.

Molecules

the grassroots, D.I.Y element certainly resembles punk, yes, but has nothing in common with it musically - the way it's produced or the culture that sprung up around it, it owes nothing to three-chord guitar-led hardcore songs whatsoever.

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Substix
Last FM
'Institutionalised cruelty is one thing. But the twisted brainwrong of a one-off man-mental is quite another.'

sweet_nothing

I'm not talking about music but the message of the music.

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PaperHurricanesAndPlanes

It doesn't effect the music, but I think that different groups of people have different takes on things.

Aesop Rock is PUNX!

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GravitySlips

exactly!

SATCHMO

I agree completely with what you're saying. Punk is a genre that can be perceived both as a musical style and as a social or political ideology. I think that hip-hop in generally started out with a lot of parallels to punk, but grew into something that has deviated pretty far from that ideal. I have even in previous threads along time ago, described "outlaw country"- Johnny cash and Waylon Jennings for example, as being intrinsically punk rock for their non-comformity to social ideals and maverick dedication to what they perceived as higher purposes. Jazz, a genre invented by African Americans, in my opinion was the original punk if you look at it in its historical context. It was considered crude abrasive and a generally unaccepted musical style by the political and religious hierarchy of that period. I won't even get into the history of reggae. Ironically, if one looks at modern and post modern music in general, it can be seen that blacks have almost always been at the forefront of using music as an agent of rebellion and social change, which, to me, is the core essence of what punk is, or should be.

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We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine.....and the machine is bleeding to death

can_i_say

Dag Nasty had a black singer

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PaperHurricanesAndPlanes

Yeah, but Dag Nasty sucks. Just kidding, they're alright. Minority of one is awesome!

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