John Wilkes Booth

i make this thread to divert the discussion on who listens to the widest variety of hip hop out of william's battle thread, cause that was a good thread that i'd like to see surive and not be killed by our arguments.

so here is the place to discuss these matters

i disagree with vowels and micco that there is nothing to appreciate in southern trap music...i think they are taking a sort of scientific/alien approach towards appreciating hip hop based one whatever rigorous linguistic standards they hold.. instead of appreciating the subtexts and the spirit of the actual music. if you say that the carter 2 sucks or jay-z sucks but you give props to biggie... you're just following the counter cultural trend to dismiss the "mainstream" and give props to the old school and underground hip hop. the type of people to use the term "real hip hop" cause they wear it on their sleeve like a badge. if you honestly think lil wayne isn't a good rapper i think you pretty much forfeit any right to comment on any hip hop post 2005 or so

so what do you guys think

DwnWthVwls

I just think we have different criteria for what makes someone good at the art. This is beating a deadhorse to be honest, I value lyricism/writing/word play/social commentary you value whatever it is that makes you think trap artists are good.

I used to be one of those "real hip hop" people, now I sometimes say it jokingly but I don't actually believe it.

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John Wilkes Booth

well if its beating a dead horse then let the funeral happen in this thread rather than the vs thread.

also, i like the way you worded "whatever it is that makes you think trap artists are good"

you know what it is? if it sounds good, i like it. that's the true spirit of music. where as you're only interested in reading sonnets.

DwnWthVwls

I like plenty of underground artists I think are not good lyricists. I might find what they say entertaining or whatever but there is nothing deep or clever.

Jedi Mind Tricks, immediately comes to mind.

Yeh, and it doesn't sound good to me. Like I said beats are cool, the people rapping sound like fucking idiots. Show me some variety in trap music, I'll be the first to admit I'm pretty naive when it comes to the sub-genre because I've never heard a song I liked and haven't explored it much. Surrell used to post a decent amount of that stuff and I didn't like any of it.

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Micco

My post was extremly satiric btw, that's how many *******s online who call themselves "Real Hip-Hop Heads" talk when they really know nothing other than N.W.A. and Tupac and spend their only trying to harass modern fans of Drake and Lil' Wayne amog others. In terms of variety, I'd say I have in my library just about every Hip-Hop song or album you could know that was made from 79-95ish, there was I point in my life (last year) where all I did was spend hours researching and listening to Hip-Hop. I love Gangsta Rap, I love alternative, I love some of the earlier No Limit southern stuff, I love it all.

I'm extremely unbiased when it come's to my Hip-Hop I love mostly anything oldschool, even a lot of stuff some people will think is absolute ****, in terms of what "killed" the golden era of Hip-Hop. I'd say I believe it was Master P and his rise of No Limits record, the music is fun, but once it become so popular that anyone who wanted to sell started appealling more to the clubs the music lost most of it's artistry and innovation at that point. Also I say Carter 2 sucks because it does, and give props to someone that isn't Biggie or Tupac because that is extremely overdone and directly what the satire in my post was aimed at. "Real Hip-Hop (Pac and Biggie)" fans are just about as annoying as overly intrusive stans.

My IG page isn't poppin' at all anymore because I mostly gave up on working on it, but a good internet friend of mine who runs '@savethehiphopculture has about 30k followers and is going to launch a website and if things go accordingly I should be starting as a writer for a blog on the website. My views on Hip-Hop are extremely unbiased, but there are a list of things that make something Hip-Hop or rather just Rap. That's why I don't like or listen to music like Tha Carter, because it's just rap, and because of that falls out of my spectrum.

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bulbasaur

i haven't branched out past the censored version of dmx's it's dark and hell is hot my mom let me buy from walmart when i was 8, so i stand no chance here

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RoxyRollah

Dmx is the man tho toast. I love Dmx because he's one big bag of coco loco.

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John Wilkes Booth

yea... i know you like rappers that are **** lyricists, while criticizing other 'mainstream' rappers for being **** lyricists. most hip hop elitists commit this hypocracy... they rep dre, snoop, odb, etc and then when presented with jeezy or gucci or some**** they say nah he sucks hes not lyrical/only talks about sexmoneydrugs/all the other bull**** that old hip hop heads used to say about dre & co when they first came out too. it's hilarious to me how transparently fake this **** is to me yet you guys keep pretending like it's a legit stance to take.

just what you said about finding them entertaining without necessarily thinking the lyrics are particularly clever/deep/etc... that's how you appreciate any rapper, including the trap guys. what you have to look for are subtle clues, slang, themes... that they employ to craft a certain image that they project. remember that hip hop is by its very nature a genre based on a sort of hunger/poverty fueled braggadocio work ethic. thus the role of an 'mc' is to win over the crowd. and this tradition extends into the g-funk west coast gangsta scene as well as the roughneck dark grimey rape-alley east coast boom bap ****.

old legends like scarface and kool g rap introduced the criminal perspective to rap music. biggie smalls really refined that trend into the hip hop cliche of projecting the image of a merciless coke lord with the world by the ball. jay picked up that torch and fleshed out the narrative. carter era wayne was a ressurection of that ghost, the lyrical d-boy who uses rap music as his diary. he actually came out after a good 5 or 6 years of southern club music with little to no focus on lyrical content. lil jon & co, the crunk era... that was an extension of the no limit lead transition towards dirty south domination... which was in turn an extention of the previous transition towards west coast g-funk domination. wayne actually reintroduced lyricism to the mainstream with those records. and now there's a new generation of lyrically oriented rappers in modern mainstream hip hop... including drake, danny brown, kendrick lamar, etc

so when you say "show me variety" or "show me innovation" i'll just point back to the long legacy of hip hop which has always been about rehashing old material with a new twist. the genre was literally born out of rehashing and remixing old funk and soul anthems. there's nothing wrong with innovation, but there's also nothing wrong with building on what has already been established.
****... for example jedi mind tricks... those guys are an extension of wu tang's legacy to the same degree that wayne is an extension of biggie/jay's

i'm not saying you must like x artist or whatever... but i get the idea that you guys are just following counter cultural trends to diss the mainstream. just the impression i get tbh

and micco no offense bro, i like you and you like a lot of the same **** i do, but how are you gonna say you have every hip hop album of note from 79-95 and then turn around and say you don't know too $hort or slick rick? what up with that bro

Janszoon

My hip hop tastes are broad-ish. I'm not really a fan of heavily R&B/Muzak-inflected hip hop, and there's a lot of that, so I guess that makes my tastes less broad. But on the other hand, I like it when artists push the envelope and enjoy hip hop that draws on a lot of disparate influences so I guess that makes it a little broader.

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DwnWthVwls

It's just an opinion. The difference between the shit lyricists I like and the shit lyricists in the mainstream is that I enjoy the shit they are talking about. I have no interest in nigga nigga nigga and guns money hoes. I don't wanna talk about it in a normal conversation and I have no interest in hearing somebody with the vocabulary of a five year old rap about it. It reminds me of the wannabe hood white kids who think they are emulating black culture.

And quite honestly I don't think a lot of the golden era stuff has great lyrics compared to the underground guys of today. I've said multiple times they get by on nostalgia. Unless they are fit my criteria of "good lyricism", I won't defend golden era stuff over today's mainstream.

I think you just want to lump me in as some elitist because I won't say the people you like are good lyricists. It's all subjective, why do you care? If the lyrics speak to you and you think they are good that's cool. I personally don't give a fuck about the garbage they are spewing and will not give them credit. I want to hear an expansive vocabulary, a variety of subject matter, similes/metaphors, and good story telling or I'm just not giving them props as lyricists. That doesn't mean they don't make good music, it just means I don't appreciate their writing (if they even did it themselves).

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