Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman
I'm against burkas and for questioning all culture and religion. I think banning burkas makes sense, and I think it's unfortunate that people think the French government would do this out of a lack of respect for human rights.
|
The reason why the french government did it is irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman
I seriously find it hilarious that people are so politically correct about religion and culture, that they are willing to embrace these kind of "practices" even in modern western society. People are allowed to take swords to school, or cover their entire bodies? Where I'm from you aren't allowed to wear a hood in a public school - someone call the UN and start a protest...
|
It's not about favourizing religion or cultural practice, it's about the right to wear whatever you want...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman
Culture is not some perfect unquestionable ultimately valuable thing. Sure - it's important, but always ask why. This burka thing is so important that these woman couldn't possibly go out without it? That's mentally twisted and wrong. <- period.
|
...as well as the right to question whatever you want. You're putting up a false dichotomy here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman
People will spend their whole lives abiding by arbitrary cultural practices and beliefs for right or for wrong. If we want the whole world to move forward we need to stop allowing people who live in the past to dictate our future.
|
My bold of what is the key issue here. You propose that we should hinder people, by law and thus by violence, to practice their own belief through clothing. You will need a very good argument to go with that, and no, the cultural oppression that may come within a certain religious system won't do here because the ban is on
burkas, not on arbirtrary dogmas proposing oppression.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman
I wouldn't ask a HINDU vegetarian to eat a hamburger (Indians can be many different religions, and not all of them are against the consumption of meat/ nor do they all worship cows). This is because I don't believe that vegetarianism / not eating beef is a burden to society. If they believed that I shouldn't be allowed to eat a hamburger, or that anyone else shouldn't be allowed to eat a hamburger - I wouldn't give a f*ck about their stupid beliefs. Yet if they had a reason other than religion to say that I shouldn't eat meat, I would consider it very seriously.
Burkas are an issue because they represent everything western society has spent the last 100 years fighting against. If it was a fashion statement I wouldn't be so harsh on it - but it's not. I don't respect religious doctrine. I don't care about it, I don't want to hear it used as a defence for any behaviour, and I don't accept it as unquestionable or untouchable.
|
You don't have to respect religious doctrine. As a matter of fact, I don't either. What you have to respect though, is that
people will choose to practice their religious belief, which is a completely different thing. And yes, you may assume that they don't really choose it but are forced into it, but you can't apply that to a whole population, and you will definitely not put an end to oppression by banning a simple piece of cloth worn in a certain way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman
If their religion asks them to do things that compramise societies ability to ensure safety for people, and to ensure a healthy society, then they can't practice their religion.
|
Non sequitur.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman
To me the purpose is clarified by the level of adherence. You can play with the intent and try to make it out to be some sort of twisted empowerment or something - but face the facts - it's just not socially healthy. It only serves to segregate sexes, and to violate a persons right to their own identity.
|
Which is exactly what your stance results in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman
I'm not deciding what is healthy and what is not. Although burkas can be shown to cause many health risks such as rickets and vitamin D deficiency. And I guess the question is, who is making this decision? Because there are countries where it is illegal not to wear a burka. And the problem is, these women aren't making a choice. They will not and therefore cannot go out in public without a burka? And this is for a religious reason - so it's not at all on the same level as as someone who has been unfortunate enough to believe that they need to be a sexual object and who may reflect this in the way they dress. And you can actually debate whether skimpy clothing is degrading - I find it hard to debate whether burkas are.
|
But now we're in France and not in an islamic country. Two wrongs don't make one right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman
Western society does push a lot of negative ideas against women. And this does produce its own kind of sexual segregation. But it's different because burkas come from a world where women's enfranchisement, identity, and humanity are being challenged. Provocative clothing come from a world that I really don't understand to be honest - but I don't think it's intended to remove women's human rights...
|
And here we come full circle: It's completely irrelevant
why they banned burkas. They did, and thus they have removed a part of women's (as human beings) rights, and you haven't come up with one single argument that comes close to justify it without resorting to arbirtrary violation of individual freedom and personal taste.