Music Banter - View Single Post - Bernie Sanders vs Donald Trump
View Single Post
Old 08-27-2015, 09:22 PM   #30 (permalink)
William_the_Bloody
Music Addict
 
William_the_Bloody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sunnydale Cemetary
Posts: 2,093
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josef K View Post
I mean it doesn't really matter that they're cited in the mainstream press if they take money from neo-Nazis, and maybe it's no coincidence that the groups who are virulently opposed to immigration tend to be racist hate groups. But since I'm giving you independent reasons why the evidence you get from FAIR is wrong, it doesn't really matter whether either they or the SPLC are a good source.

So... still no response. Cool.

I question some of these too - Townhall and the Daily Caller are very ideological publications, about.com isn't really very serious, The Odyssey says it's crowdsourced journalism (so this is just a random person talking) and that article only cites the same FAIR report anyway, and as for that WaPo piece, this is the first paragraph:

So this isn't just "I have evidence and you evidence," because your evidence has serious methodological problems.

Anyway, the solution, once again, is further liberalization. Look to this report, which says that if we had a better path to citizenship, our economy would benefit in a huge number of ways - debt would decrease, additional spending would create jobs, wages go up, a bunch more. The links to some actual studies are in there as well.

That first study I linked says that other studies which conclude the other way don't take a holistic enough view of the economy. I can check to see whether it mentions your study by name, but again, your methodology is flawed regardless. I don't mean to discount your personal experiences, but if we're trying to figure out whether there's a net decrease in wages, the fact that you've seen people lose jobs is a little less important.

Okay, good for you. You sound like a cool person, and I mean that sincerely. I don't really understand "animosity to my own culture"? Maybe I just have beliefs that are different from yours.

So, in sum, you give two reasons why immigration is bad. First is increased government spending. I tell you that even if this is true:

1. We ought to be spending money on social services anyway
2. This isn't causing tax increases
3. This isn't the place where we should be making cuts

Second is depressed wages. I tell you that even if this is true:

1. This is a short term problem
2. A lot more people are getting jobs, which is good

I also tell you that it's not true and that the economic consensus, when looking at all sectors of the economy, is that native workers - even uneducated native workers - benefit.

But finally, you completely ignore the argument I keep making that further liberalization solves both of these problems by allowing undocumented immigrants to fully participate in the economy, increasing spending and creating jobs, and by keeping employers from threatening undocumented immigrants and getting away with wage theft. The solution isn't "Build a wall," it's "Treat people better when they're here."
First off apologies, I had no idea you were still in high school, I'm actually severely embarrassed for responding, I'm not going to beat up on a teenager, Cudos on you for citing sources at your age, well done!!!

Yes very intelligent and sophisticated for your age group.

The sources I have provided are valid and legitimate. You might not like the Washington Post ,but they are a reliable source. In today's world, it is almost impossible not to find some bias in a primary or secondary source, particularly with Universities and doctorates sadly.

Even if you don't trust (FAIR), they could be sued for libel & discredited if they chose to misrepresent their data without being able to back it up.

...and like I said before, I don't know anything about them or anti immigration groups in general, but I do know the Southern Poverty Law Center is a pretty reprehensible organization that have several lawsuits against them for a reason, please don't cite them as a source in the future.

As for wages, there are plenty of studies citing immigrations negative impact on workers. This article is from Paul Krugman the number 1 liberal economist in the country where he sights three different studies on the effects of immigration and wages he writes.

Quote:
My second negative point is that immigration reduces the wages of domestic workers who compete with immigrants. That’s just supply and demand: we’re talking about large increases in the number of low-skill workers relative to other inputs into production, so it’s inevitable that this means a fall in wages. Mr. Borjas and Mr. Katz have to go through a lot of number-crunching to turn that general proposition into specific estimates of the wage impact, but the general point seems impossible to deny.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/200...igration/?_r=0

Plus here is another article on the effects immigration has on African Americans if the first one did not convince you.

Effects of Immigration on African-American Employment and Incarceration

Finally before I go I would like to apologize for the whole "middle class twat" comments it was probably uncalled for, and yes, for the first time in on music banter I was probably being the irrational dickhead.

I was bullied somewhat in high school to, but in order for me to explain my comment I would probably have to write a paragraph long backstory on my political past and the people who I encountered that were on the far left of the spectrum, on issues like immigration & environmentalism, and the endless confrontational debates that ensued.
William_the_Bloody is offline   Reply With Quote