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Old 02-16-2023, 07:12 PM   #69 (permalink)
DriveYourCarDownToTheSea
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Originally Posted by Trollheart View Post
Okay well now we have to fall out. Prog ****ing lite? Genesis were one of the bands who bloody created prog, along with Yes and ELP and so forth. No way will I take that. Prog lite my arse. And seriously? Comparing a prog instrumental to a classical concerto? Now come on. Did I ever say I hated instrumentals? I'm a fan of Vangelis and Carbon Based Lifeforms, and love most post-rock. I love instrumentals. But - and here's the important bit you for some reason seem to have missed - instrumentals that GO somewhere! Most of the stuff I labelled wankery is just that: it's pointless, directionless (to me) noodling so someone can say "look at how good on the guitar/keys/bass/insert as appropriate I am". If someone writes a piece of music that I can't follow or see any real structure in, and it seems nothing more than an exercise in smugness and showoffery, yes, that's wankery to me. Odd, some may say: thought all prog was wankery? But I can't point to a single instance of wankery in the bands I enjoy. Not off-hand anyway, and certainly not with Genesis. Okay, the ****ing Brazilian on Invisible Touch probably is, but that album is pretty much ****e anyway. Hardly prog at all. Genesis know how to write songs and don't/didn't have to bolster up their egos with solo pieces that showcase their own talents and have little if any other value.

Genesis? Prog lite? Fight me. This actually smacks of more like prog snobbery to me. Oh, you don't understand REAL prog. Well once again I say, I know what I like, and Yes just don't do it for me. Nevertheless, I don't condescendingly relegate them to some made-up sub-sub-genre of prog because they play differently. Genesis deserve more respect than that.

Look, I don't like Yes, at least, early Yes. Deal with it. I'm not going to keep arguing the toss and try to justify my dislike of them. Maybe something here will click, I don't know. But overall I think you can generally keep your seventies Yes and I'll have the eighties and possibly later. And ABWH.

I've no wish to denigrate any of the albums; these are merely my own impressions and what I hear. But to label bands who are prog icons but who don't measure up to some superior idea of what prog is as prog lite is simply just not on. At all.
On the contrary, I like Genesis, I just don't think they're as "Proggy" as bands like Yes and ELP. Prog, by definition, is rock that is more complex than standard rock. So, if it is really complex and even unstructured, then it is more "Proggy" than prog bands that are less complex.

And you're misunderstanding my usage of the terms "Ultra" and "Lite." These were not intended as better/worse judgement terms. They were supposed to notate more/less complexity, that is all. "Ultra" prog (bands like Yes) is just more complex than "Lite" prog (bands like Genesis).

IMO the unstructured nature of a lot of Yes' stuff is their appeal. So much popular music is so predictable and formulaic that it's nice to have some unpredictable stuff out there to listen to.
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