i've been following this and i don't really want to get too much more involved but I had to comment, after all you know where i stand vaguely - but tore surely on some level this whole thread concept is intuitive on your part?
As those of us who were smacked draw on our personal experience to assert that measured 'positive discipline' is not harmful in the long term (a grand generalization to be sure); surely yourself (and i'm guessing Marijan) are taking the 'well I wasn't physically punished and I turned out fine, so any form of corporal discipline is unnecessary and cruel' stance?
I know you have good intentions and are interested in the wider effect of this ingrained method of child-rearing, but doesn't the sheer majority (even in these comparatively 'lax' and conscientious times) in the poll make you think that maybe this kind of scolding is natural in society? Welly maybe not
natural (we like to think of ourselves as reasoned, evolved beings after all) but not so abhorrent and inexcusable?
I think maybe you are playing down the personal experience part a bit too much, because this is important for gauging that line between discipline and abuse, which I won't even try to deny is a huge problem (although just how endemic it is I don't know, where are the figures and how reliable are they?), nobody here is claiming to having been abused.
On the face of it illegalizing corporal punishment outright is an assured way of reducing *reported* child abuse. But isn't it also a gross violation into people's domestic lives, their privacy?
I can't be bothered to chase up the wiki sources, but I guess for these social analysis they interview a cross section of society and draw their conclusions on averages? I will admit that I'm far from perfect and not the most well-rounded individual, but not even on a subconscious level could I trace it back to the occasional smacks I had as a young child... I'm not prepared to make that generalization for everybody here either
However I think there's possibly something in it. My family could be very argumentative at times (okay, often) but this was only in teenhood when the hormones were really flying. Was it suppressed rage from growing up with the threat of physical violence? I don't think so as I can tell you if I
really was intent on doing something I shouldn't as a 5 year old, I would probably do it repeatedly if I thought I could get away with it... It wasn't an ever-present threat either from my dad, but a last resort.
I don't know your (tore and Marijan's) family circumstances growing up, but I can tell you that living in close quarters with several siblings with two working parents is probably more likely to lead to a dysfunctional family unit - when kids are bored they do stupid things and they need attention as much as they need their own space, stress levels can go through the roof for parents and a smack can be the most effective way for kids to differentiate.
These kind of working/lower-middle class living conditions are obviously really common and on a practical level I would be interested to hear what alternative methods you might advocate under these circumstances?
Or indeed how well these legislations have gone down in Sweden? Are Sweden and Norway not comparatively wealthy countries with historically liberal attitudes? (I'm not against this)
edit: this is a shambolic mess of a post, but i'm hoping you'll pick it apart so i can respond
