Quote:
Originally Posted by noise
yes, we have other options today. yes, you can survive without eating flesh. but do you honestly think that your actions make a difference? nobody will remember your stout heart and your bully-for-the-beasts attitude. a thousand years from now, every living thing on this planet will be dead and forgotten, and the universe will move right along in its unflinching quest towards chaos. such is our fate. best embrace it.
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Yes, the universe moves along toward its unflinching fate...but not killing and eating an animal NOW makes a difference to that animal NOW.
Imagine you are a hunter. You are about to shoot a deer through her vital organs. If you *don't* do this to her, then she will live on another day, perhaps another week, month, year, five years. Your decision not to kill and eat her makes a difference to HER.
Similarly, when you don't support eating meat, you reduce the demand for meat, so fewer animals are raised in often unpleasant conditions and slaughtered at a young age. You have PREVENTED unnecessary cruelty to animals.
Another example: If people raised cows for milk and didn't slaughter these cows at a young age (as occurs now), then this would make a difference to the COWS who could then live out their 20 years or so in relative peace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwSugar
I'm not a vegetarian because I think I'm making a difference. Whether or not the animal is dead isn't the deal for me, I just don't want to be the one consuming it.
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I'm a vegan because it makes a difference that I feel is positive. It isn't a large difference, per person, but it is still a difference.
I'm a vegan much in the same way as I am an opponent of capital punishment of humans. My opposition by itself doesn't make a huge difference, but combined with all the other opponents we can and do sometimes get capital punishment to be against the law. Iowa still has no capital punishment. I always vote for people who oppose capital punishment. And that makes a difference to the humans who aren't slaughtered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double X
That's why I plan to transition to veganism. It is logically inconsistent to support the meat industry and the rights of humans.
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Welcome back to MB, Double X!
As a vegan, I understand your reasoning, of course. Like you say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double X
Humans and nonhuman animals have the same worth because there is no inherent difference between us. We are both life. What separates apart from intelligence?
A retarded infant is technically dumber than a dolphin. But we would never euthanize a baby, but I'm sure many people wouldn't mind the murder of a dolphin. Intelligence cannot be used to elevate humans about nonhuman animals.
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No being has inherent worth, I feel. Our human judgement is what "gives" others worth.
I agree with you that intelligence alone should not be used to determine a being's worth. A computer could be more intelligent than I am in many ways, but I will still care more if a human, or dog, or pig has her throat slit and her body destroyed, because I know humans, dogs, and pigs *feel*.
Double X, if you ever have any questions about veganism and nutrition, feel free to ask me. I had to learn a lot about vegan nutrition from books and the internet back in 1997 when I dropped dairy and eggs from my vegetarian diet, since I knew no vegans with whom I could talk. So, I am knowledgeable about vegan nutrition and am more than happy to answer any questions you may have, since I love trying to make it easier for people to reduce cruelty toward animals.