We've got a major problem...

Guybrush · 08-17-2013, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Yes, I agree that people do indeed to that. In fact that's very much the MO of the person we are discussing. Notice how, despite my attempt to remove the derail, he still succeeded in making the conversation focus on him.

We have some site rules. They basically lay down the ground rules for the interactions that go on here.

From what I can tell, he operates within the rules, but the people who get upset with him have often been breaking them. Rules were broken in order to escalate the situation. As enforcers of the rules, what should you do?

I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with Sopsych. No really, I don't. But people doing so should still be expected to stick to the rules.

Trollheart · 08-17-2013, 05:36 AM

Tore, I love ya man but I have to agree you're being blinded here to what sopsych is doing. He hasn't offered a single solution that doesn't come with a condition, he seems to think that everyone is waiting with bated breath for his mythical "great threads" and telling us he won't make these legendary threads unless we change things the way HE wants them changed, and he's restating the same points over and over again. He really seems to have a thing about some mods. TBH --- and just to make it clear, I do NOT think this is the case but just hypothetically --- he's so "into" you as a mod that were I not sure it was not the case I might think he was your sock puppet: it's that odd. He has nothing bad to say about you -- and neither do I --- and that's fine, but mods like Pedestrian, Jansz, Vanilla don't seem to matter to him, and you know and I know the incredible job they're doing.

I personally think the derail split thread was a great idea, though I did notice and say here that unfortunately it ended up pulling all the discussion from here before it was closed, so perhaps didn't have the expected or desired effect. But it was I think a good idea, an attempt to calm things down and return the thread to its topic. Let's not forget that duga started this but it also ended up being taken over by Sop.

I'd like also to take issue with Veg (welcome back by the way but): why do you always stand up for the aggressor, or I guess you'd say the underdog, without considering the other side? It's all very well to say so-and-so is being victimised but if you take the time to do your research into that person you'll see he or she has brought this upon him or herself, and I think it's grossly unfair to suddenly paint them as the injured party without any balance on the other side. Sop has been crying about change here for at least months but hasn't done a single thing to achieve it, then when people do he sneers at their efforts. He ignores salient points and dismisses others, and repeats his mantra like a robot. It's hard to have patience with someone like that. I think you're a great debater but you should really try to focus your, shall we say, defending, upon those who actually deserve it. Not everyone who you see as being oppressed here is a victim; some make their own bed and you shouldn't be helping them sort it.

It's very frustrating for members who want to enjoy this site to have someone constantly complain without offering solutions, and worse to have someone then say, effectively, there there, did the nasty members upset you? Never mind: I'll stand up for you. That's all very fine and good if they deserve it, but sop has by now used up every reserve of sympathy and patience most if not all of us here have, so to come on at this late stage and start defending him makes me wonder: have you read the whole thread through? Do you know what you're dealing with, and what you're trying to defend?

Guybrush · 08-17-2013, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

I'm not saying I excuse it.
I'm saying I would take a look at why it was happening.

Yes and my point is that arguing an unpopular opinion is not against the rules. Trolling is.

Here we've been discussing how the forums tend to be clicky and full of drama and hostilities. But what about this situation then? Isn't the conflict between members here and Sopsych also indicative of the very problems that this thread is meant to bring up? Yes, indeed it is. It seems obvious to me.

But instead of realizing that is is, most seem more interested in simply placing all blame on Sopsych. How can we turn this into a friendlier environment if even the people discussing the problem suddenly can't see it when face to face with it in the very thread meant to bring it up?

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-17-2013, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Yes and my point is that arguing an unpopular opinion is not against the rules. Trolling is.

I agree

Yet you're insisting that some members have been trolling, a lot of those members would say that Sopsych is trolling.

I have told both sides to stop and have deleted posts to deal with this.
This clearly hasn't solved the problem

So I'll ask the same question I asked in the other thread that nobody answered.
Do I get rid of the bunch of members that are contributing who are getting fed up of having all their efforts dismissed?
Or do I get rid of the person that's dismissing all those efforts and has openly said that they have no intention of doing anything positive?

That's how things are right now.

**Janszoon** · 08-17-2013, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

We have some site rules. They basically lay down the ground rules for the interactions that go on here.

From what I can tell, he operates within the rules, but the people who get upset with him have often been breaking them. Rules were broken in order to escalate the situation. As enforcers of the rules, what should you do?

I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with Sopsych. No really, I don't. But people doing so should still be expected to stick to the rules.

Yes, we have rules, including a rule against trolling, as you well know. Should people be allowed to break that rule as long as they praise you personally or do think it should be enforced?

Guybrush · 08-17-2013, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

He hasn't offered a single solution that doesn't come with a condition, he seems to think that everyone is waiting with bated breath for his mythical "great threads" and telling us he won't make these legendary threads unless we change things the way HE wants them changed, and he's restating the same points over and over again. He really seems to have a thing about some mods. TBH --- and just to make it clear, I do NOT think this is the case but just hypothetically --- he's so "into" you as a mod that were I not sure it was not the case I might think he was your sock puppet: it's that odd. He has nothing bad to say about you -- and neither do I --- and that's fine, but mods like Pedestrian, Jansz, Vanilla don't seem to matter to him, and you know and I know the incredible job they're doing.

Is it so that in order to be a member here, all your opinions have to be condoned by the rest of the community? I don't think so, I just think you should stick to the rules. Okay, if you're a nazi cannibal murderer, perhaps your opinions are too extreme, but I don't think they are in this case.

To you, I guess they're just some stupid guy's opinions. Why do you get emotional about it? And do you think we should ban people for having stupid opinions? Shall we remove his right to write about them? What do you think should be done in this case?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

I'd like also to take issue with Veg (welcome back by the way but): why do you always stand up for the aggressor, or I guess you'd say the underdog, without considering the other side? It's all very well to say so-and-so is being victimised but if you take the time to do your research into that person you'll see he or she has brought this upon him or herself, and I think it's grossly unfair to suddenly paint them as the injured party without any balance on the other side. Sop has been crying about change here for at least months but hasn't done a single thing to achieve it, then when people do he sneers at their efforts. He ignores salient points and dismisses others, and repeats his mantra like a robot. It's hard to have patience with someone like that. I think you're a great debater but you should really try to focus your, shall we say, defending, upon those who actually deserve it. Not everyone who you see as being oppressed here is a victim; some make their own bed and you shouldn't be helping them sort it.

It's very frustrating for members who want to enjoy this site to have someone constantly complain without offering solutions, and worse to have someone then say, effectively, there there, did the nasty members upset you? Never mind: I'll stand up for you. That's all very fine and good if they deserve it, but sop has by now used up every reserve of sympathy and patience most if not all of us here have, so to come on at this late stage and start defending him makes me wonder: have you read the whole thread through? Do you know what you're dealing with, and what you're trying to defend?

See, in the bolded part, you are saying that because Sopsych's opinions provoke others, he should be the one to take responsibility when other people start to troll him and derail the thread over it.

Don't you see what a slippery slope that is? We have laws here and we shouldn't hold people responsible for the crimes committed against them, no matter who they are or what opinions they have.

I believe me and Erica both see the bigger picture here. In the end, it is not about Sopsych, but about the rules and what should be expected from the members here.

Guybrush · 08-17-2013, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Yes, we have rules, including a rule against trolling, as you well know. Should people be allowed to break that rule as long as they praise you personally or do think it should be enforced?

I think his opinions are genuine opinions that he holds. I don't think his goal is to irritate. He just voices his opinions here like others do.

I think you call it trolling when it really isn't because defining it as trolling gives you more power over it.

edit :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

So I'll ask the same question I asked in the other thread that nobody answered.
Do I get rid of the bunch of members that are contributing who are getting fed up of having all their efforts dismissed?
Or do I get rid of the person that's dismissing all those efforts and has openly said that they have no intention of doing anything positive?

That's how things are right now.

Moderate when the rules are being broken. Ask people to calm down when tempers get high. Perhaps you can mention that there is always the option of placing someone on the ignore list. Try not to get involved in the drama and don't resort to name-calling like openly calling a member a troll. You're only making yourself an active participant in the troubles you should prevent.

By not simply enforcing the rules, you are moderating from the point of view of your personal interests rather than the set of rules and guidelines that we're all meant to follow - and which you are meant to enforce.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-17-2013, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I think you call it trolling when it really isn't because defining it as trolling gives you more power over it.

If going into a thread about making the forum a better place and saying openly you have no intention of doing just that isn't trolling then I don't know what is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Moderate when the rules are being broken. Ask people to calm down when tempers get high. Perhaps you can mention that there is always the option of placing someone on the ignore list. Try not to get involved in the drama and don't resort to name-calling like openly calling a member a troll. You're only making yourself an active participant in the troubles you should prevent.

By not simply enforcing the rules, you are moderating from the point of view of your personal interests rather than the set of rules and guidelines that we're all meant to follow - and which you are meant to enforce.

Huh?
Did I not just say

'I have told both sides to stop and have deleted posts to deal with this.
This clearly hasn't solved the problem.'

I don't really see how that has anything to do with personal interests.

**Janszoon** · 08-17-2013, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I think his opinions are genuine opinions that he holds. I don't think his goal is to irritate. He just voices his opinions here like others do.

I think you call it trolling when it really isn't because defining it as trolling gives you more power over it.

I call it trolling because it's trolling. Pretty simple really.

djchameleon · 08-17-2013, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Ask people to calm down when tempers get high. Perhaps you can mention that there is always the option of placing someone on the ignore list.

asking someone to calm down or saying relax/chill out when tempers get high especially publicly has a tendency to make people more agitated. I think this should be done in private through PMs.

08-17-2013, 05:36 AM	#332 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	Tore, I love ya man but I have to agree you're being blinded here to what sopsych is doing. He hasn't offered a single solution that doesn't come with a condition, he seems to think that everyone is waiting with bated breath for his mythical "great threads" and telling us he won't make these legendary threads unless we change things the way HE wants them changed, and he's restating the same points over and over again. He really seems to have a thing about some mods. TBH --- and just to make it clear, I do NOT think this is the case but just hypothetically --- he's so "into" you as a mod that were I not sure it was not the case I might think he was your sock puppet: it's that odd. He has nothing bad to say about you -- and neither do I --- and that's fine, but mods like Pedestrian, Jansz, Vanilla don't seem to matter to him, and you know and I know the incredible job they're doing. I personally think the derail split thread was a great idea, though I did notice and say here that unfortunately it ended up pulling all the discussion from here before it was closed, so perhaps didn't have the expected or desired effect. But it was I think a good idea, an attempt to calm things down and return the thread to its topic. Let's not forget that duga started this but it also ended up being taken over by Sop. I'd like also to take issue with Veg (welcome back by the way but): why do you always stand up for the aggressor, or I guess you'd say the underdog, without considering the other side? It's all very well to say so-and-so is being victimised but if you take the time to do your research into that person you'll see he or she has brought this upon him or herself, and I think it's grossly unfair to suddenly paint them as the injured party without any balance on the other side. Sop has been crying about change here for at least months but hasn't done a single thing to achieve it, then when people do he sneers at their efforts. He ignores salient points and dismisses others, and repeats his mantra like a robot. It's hard to have patience with someone like that. I think you're a great debater but you should really try to focus your, shall we say, defending, upon those who actually deserve it. Not everyone who you see as being oppressed here is a victim; some make their own bed and you shouldn't be helping them sort it. It's very frustrating for members who want to enjoy this site to have someone constantly complain without offering solutions, and worse to have someone then say, effectively, there there, did the nasty members upset you? Never mind: I'll stand up for you. That's all very fine and good if they deserve it, but sop has by now used up every reserve of sympathy and patience most if not all of us here have, so to come on at this late stage and start defending him makes me wonder: have you read the whole thread through? Do you know what you're dealing with, and what you're trying to defend? __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018