We've got a major problem...

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-07-2013, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopsych

Voting on mods - allow a window for nominations/demotions at the beginning of each month and if, for example, 5 people agree about someone, start a poll that runs for at least a week and requires enough votes that cliques couldn't do much damage. The thing is, The current system is the ultimate clique, friends choosing friends to work with them. And I'm not going to make (good) threads until that changes.

In most cases the people who you think would be good mods are not mods for the simple reason they don't want to be.
And I don't choose friends when moderating either, in most cases I end up choosing the same people that most of the forum would want there. There's been several times I've put my own feelings about someone aside to moderate with them because I think they deserve the chance.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 08-07-2013, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

I remember when the idea for the political forum in the lounge was raised, I was totally against the idea because I'd seen the kind of sh*tstorms that came with them at other places.

I've seen a few forums with a much older demographic than this one totally ban political discussions because of all the resulting fall out that came from them. If mature adults can't handle those types of discussions I'm hardly surprised they affect this forum so much.

Criticising someones favourite band is one thing, but when you start criticising peoples lifestyles, political leanings & start labelling people without actually directly insulting them it's difficult for us mods to know where to draw the line.

Yes you're totally right about this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning Down

We're not anti-conversation, we're anti-arguments, drama, name calling, and insults that happen in the Lounge, more specifically in the Current Events section.

I am definitely down for no more drama.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

I think DJ's last post is probably one of the most honest and actually bravest in this thread, and I think we should all --- me included goes without saying --- undertake to follow his example. We've all --- all --- been guilty of contributing to or in some cases starting, maybe maintaining the fires and I think now is a good time for us all to throw down the gasoline cans and try to join the fire brigade. If we all recognise that, rather than blame others --- or "everyone but me" --- on these incidents, and accept that we all have had a role to play in every situation --- unless we actually weren't involved in the discussion at all --- this could have been something as simple or esoteric as calming someone down rather than bait them, be the voice of reason --- (yes there are a lot of triple hyphens in this sentence, aren't there?) we can all do our bit to help, then perhaps, just perhaps, we can turn this thing around.

Remember, although there's no smoke without fire, fire can't exist in a vacuum and if we provide that vacuum by refusing to be drawn into petty arguments --- a drama vacuum, if you like (yeah I'm aware I just used another triple hyphen!) then maybe the drama, like a fire without oxygen, might just gutter and go out.

Trollheart I'm impressed that you have opened up like this because I am also one who's been involved with drama in the past. I think if all parties got together and discussed the situation causing the deep rooted conflict then maybe things could really change.

Stephen · 08-07-2013, 07:36 PM

If current events/politics is really a major problem can it be moderated similarly to the journals with each post needing approval? It would somewhat slow the pace of debate though. Maybe take a poll? I know it makes more work for mods but maybe it would be easier than trying to make sense of the wreck after the fact.

I'm not sure it would stop all the tension just moderating that sub forum though. If people want to fight they seem to be able to take offense at anything.

TheBig3 · 08-07-2013, 07:56 PM

For what my two cents is worth, I don't get why this thread it being made right now. It could have been made for the last 5 years.

But it has been suggested, so lets just say this. I think I am 50/50 on posting music/politics, and I'm fine with you deleting the current events section. I don't think its intelligent, but I'm fine with it.

As a person who enjoys the political discussions here, I don't know if its fair to punish the civilized folks for wanting to further engage the community beyond the express interest of music. Having said that, most people posting in the political forum aren't. Their misinformed, uncivilized, fringe lunatics who "know" things because their feelings told them it was so. And to me, that isn't politics. But there have been enough times where we had a discussion about things that didn't require research. Things that were decidedly political that it was just nice hearing the other side about.

Lately, I've felt as if its been the majority of posts around here. Sometimes I hit "New Posts" and see a litany of Current Event threads, and they all seem like softball threads designed for ****storms:

1. Is rape bad?

2. What are your thoughts on murder?

3. Aren't taxes terrible?

The ACA thread DJ posted was actually a pretty decent discussion over all. I know that I asked for it to be locked, but it improved drastically from there and I think it got the message across. The real problem there was Arya and HHBH being obnoxious. Thats not a political problem, its a user problem.

As for deleting the forum, as I said, I think it would be fine. I'd miss it, but not enough to stop coming to MB. Just the same, I think things are overmodded here. Threads locked way too early for my taste in general...now we're talking about removing an entire forum?

With all due respect, you take the phrase "Preemptive strike" to heart. I would remind everyone here that its August - we've never had a fruitful summer season on MB in all the years I've been here, and I'm going to hit 9 years this month. People go through phases of interest. And we've also had a retention issue. Building up the community is hard. People have a million choices on-line and engaging discussion is pretty tough to come by period. New members often aren't coherent or have niche interests that we can't relate to.

What happened to that "Prince of Punk" kid? This: http://www.musicbanter.com/punk/7081...ince-punk.html

That guy didn't leave because of political threads, I assure you.

I can empathize with there not being enough music discussion, but I've seen a few threads where someone posted a Youtube video (one of the easiest ways to hear new music - just click play) and it went ignored for pages, or the discussion reverted to some discussion from before the video.

You can only talk about the base discussion so often. When someone posts a new or novel topic, it should be fostered by members who care, because the half-hearted swoop in and take the easy topic (like who's sleeping with who in the band, or when they sold out.)

There, now I can't say I didn't speak up.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 08-07-2013, 07:59 PM

Big3 I'm not sure that you mean Arya, she's Aww Sugar and I haven't seen her being obnoxious.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-07-2013, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

If current events/politics is really a major problem can it be moderated similarly to the journals with each post needing approval? It would somewhat slow the pace of debate though. Maybe take a poll? I know it makes more work for mods but maybe it would be easier than trying to make sense of the wreck after the fact.

I'm not sure it would stop all the tension just moderating that sub forum though. If people want to fight they seem to be able to take offense at anything.

I think that would slow things right down and I would like to think that it wouldn't need to come to that.

Everybody seems to be in agreement that something needs to be done I think this one needs to be more on the members and by that I mean everybody including mods.

It's easy to say the mods handled this wrong, or the mods handled that wrong. How about not making things an issue in the first place so we don't have to sort things out for people. We don't want to make loads of rules that we have to go around enforcing, we want people to act like adults & moderate themselves for the most part.

I'd much rather be doing something constructive like writing in my journal or talking about music I'm listening to or making Trollheart listen to albums he'll hate than discussing someone's 10th ban in the mod forum because they STILL won't accept they're being caustic towards others.

LoathsomePete · 08-07-2013, 08:06 PM

I made this suggestion in the Mod forum but I think it's worth bringing up here given how many people are interested in doing something about the state of the Lounge.

What if it was so lounge posts didn't show up when you clicked New Posts. The people who enjoy the lounge still get to post there and all the threads remain the same, but instead they don't overshadow posts made in the music forums.

WWWP · 08-07-2013, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoathsomePete

I made this suggestion in the Mod forum but I think it's worth bringing up here given how many people are interested in doing something about the state of the Lounge.

What if it was so lounge posts didn't show up when you clicked New Posts. The people who enjoy the lounge still get to post there and all the threads remain the same, but instead they don't overshadow posts made in the music forums.

I love this idea.

Stephen · 08-07-2013, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoathsomePete

I made this suggestion in the Mod forum but I think it's worth bringing up here given how many people are interested in doing something about the state of the Lounge.

What if it was so lounge posts didn't show up when you clicked New Posts. The people who enjoy the lounge still get to post there and all the threads remain the same, but instead they don't overshadow posts made in the music forums.

I don't really see a problem with the number of lounge posts drowning out the music ones. I do see a problem with legitimate threads being bumped by spammers peppering necro threads with throw away comments. Do new posters still have their first posts moderated?

In any case these are pretty easily recognised and usually deleted pretty promptly so I don't know that it's a major concern. More of a frequent annoyance.

Arya Stark · 08-07-2013, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

The ACA thread DJ posted was actually a pretty decent discussion over all. I know that I asked for it to be locked, but it improved drastically from there and I think it got the message across. The real problem there was Arya and HHBH being obnoxious. Thats not a political problem, its a user problem.

People are attacking the wrong situations and the wrong people. I did not argue, create drama, or waste a post. I added my approval in what I thought would be the least dramatic way possible. To avoid arguing with HHBH, I didn't even read his posts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla

Big3 I'm not sure that you mean Arya, she's Aww Sugar and I haven't seen her being obnoxious.

Thank you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoathsomePete

I made this suggestion in the Mod forum but I think it's worth bringing up here given how many people are interested in doing something about the state of the Lounge.

What if it was so lounge posts didn't show up when you clicked New Posts. The people who enjoy the lounge still get to post there and all the threads remain the same, but instead they don't overshadow posts made in the music forums.

THIS SOUNDS PERFECT! It's not censoring, but it's placing the importance on the right threads!!!

08-07-2013, 07:56 PM	#74 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	For what my two cents is worth, I don't get why this thread it being made right now. It could have been made for the last 5 years. But it has been suggested, so lets just say this. I think I am 50/50 on posting music/politics, and I'm fine with you deleting the current events section. I don't think its intelligent, but I'm fine with it. As a person who enjoys the political discussions here, I don't know if its fair to punish the civilized folks for wanting to further engage the community beyond the express interest of music. Having said that, most people posting in the political forum aren't. Their misinformed, uncivilized, fringe lunatics who "know" things because their feelings told them it was so. And to me, that isn't politics. But there have been enough times where we had a discussion about things that didn't require research. Things that were decidedly political that it was just nice hearing the other side about. Lately, I've felt as if its been the majority of posts around here. Sometimes I hit "New Posts" and see a litany of Current Event threads, and they all seem like softball threads designed for ****storms: 1. Is rape bad? 2. What are your thoughts on murder? 3. Aren't taxes terrible? The ACA thread DJ posted was actually a pretty decent discussion over all. I know that I asked for it to be locked, but it improved drastically from there and I think it got the message across. The real problem there was Arya and HHBH being obnoxious. Thats not a political problem, its a user problem. As for deleting the forum, as I said, I think it would be fine. I'd miss it, but not enough to stop coming to MB. Just the same, I think things are overmodded here. Threads locked way too early for my taste in general...now we're talking about removing an entire forum? With all due respect, you take the phrase "Preemptive strike" to heart. I would remind everyone here that its August - we've never had a fruitful summer season on MB in all the years I've been here, and I'm going to hit 9 years this month. People go through phases of interest. And we've also had a retention issue. Building up the community is hard. People have a million choices on-line and engaging discussion is pretty tough to come by period. New members often aren't coherent or have niche interests that we can't relate to. What happened to that "Prince of Punk" kid? This: http://www.musicbanter.com/punk/7081...ince-punk.html That guy didn't leave because of political threads, I assure you. I can empathize with there not being enough music discussion, but I've seen a few threads where someone posted a Youtube video (one of the easiest ways to hear new music - just click play) and it went ignored for pages, or the discussion reverted to some discussion from before the video. You can only talk about the base discussion so often. When someone posts a new or novel topic, it should be fostered by members who care, because the half-hearted swoop in and take the easy topic (like who's sleeping with who in the band, or when they sold out.) There, now I can't say I didn't speak up. __________________ I've moved to a new address

08-07-2013, 07:59 PM	#75 (permalink)
Scarlett O'Hara Make it so Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,181	Big3 I'm not sure that you mean Arya, she's Aww Sugar and I haven't seen her being obnoxious. __________________ "Elph is truly an enfant terrible of the forum, bless and curse him" - Marie, Queen of Thots

08-07-2013, 08:06 PM	#77 (permalink)
LoathsomePete Cardboard Box Realtor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Hobb's End Posts: 7,648	I made this suggestion in the Mod forum but I think it's worth bringing up here given how many people are interested in doing something about the state of the Lounge. What if it was so lounge posts didn't show up when you clicked New Posts. The people who enjoy the lounge still get to post there and all the threads remain the same, but instead they don't overshadow posts made in the music forums. __________________ Last.FM 101 Albums That May Not Change Your Life, But I Really Like And You Might Too

08-07-2013, 07:36 PM	#73 (permalink)
Stephen I sleep in your hat Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Melbourne, Vic. Aus. Posts: 1,846	If current events/politics is really a major problem can it be moderated similarly to the journals with each post needing approval? It would somewhat slow the pace of debate though. Maybe take a poll? I know it makes more work for mods but maybe it would be easier than trying to make sense of the wreck after the fact. I'm not sure it would stop all the tension just moderating that sub forum though. If people want to fight they seem to be able to take offense at anything.