International music (in general)

Guybrush · 03-04-2010, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

Hmm...have *you* been practicing this upbeat fiddle tune on *your* violin, Tore? Torturing people with high-pitched squeals? One of the benefits of playing a violin as a child, especially when one has siblings, is the violin's remarkable capacity for making excruciating sounds. ;-)

I can imagine! A problem with me and fiddle is I can't really cope with my own excruciating squeals. When I play, it's really only a step above trying to make music by scraping on a blackboard. I can only imagine how awful it must be to have a learning sibling doing this frequently.

The song above is probably played with a hardingfele (traditional violin-type instrument) which is possibly in a special "troll" tuning according to that wikipedia article .. One of my friends have a hardingfele, but since noone can play it, it just hangs on the wall as decoration.

VEGANGELICA · 03-04-2010, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I can imagine! A problem with me and fiddle is I can't really cope with my own excruciating squeals. When I play, it's really only a step above trying to make music by scraping on a blackboard. I can only imagine how awful it must be to have a learning sibling doing this frequently.

The song above is probably played with a hardingfele (traditional violin-type instrument) which is possibly in a special "troll" tuning according to that wikipedia article .. One of my friends have a hardingfele, but since noone can play it, it just hangs on the wall as decoration.

I didn't know about the existence of the hardingfele, Tore! The information about religious beliefs frowning on this instrument and its music (often used for dancing) is very interesting, especially because my mother-in-law is of proud Norwegian ancestry and talks about how her Lutheran mother and she herself as a child (in Minnesota) were not allowed to dance. Or play cards. Because, of course, dancing and card-playing are devilish activities. Sigh.

About violin and siblings: yes, my brother was not a fan of my practicing when I was little. I don't know if his growled complaining made me practice less or more! Probably more.

About *your* violin playing: hey, a step above black-board scraping is a start!

Do you have a teacher, Tore? Based on your pictures of yourself playing, I actually had some technique suggestions!

Guybrush · 03-05-2010, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

I didn't know about the existence of the hardingfele, Tore! The information about religious beliefs frowning on this instrument and its music (often used for dancing) is very interesting, especially because my mother-in-law is of proud Norwegian ancestry and talks about how her Lutheran mother and she herself as a child (in Minnesota) were not allowed to dance. Or play cards. Because, of course, dancing and card-playing are devilish activities. Sigh.

About violin and siblings: yes, my brother was not a fan of my practicing when I was little. I don't know if his growled complaining made me practice less or more! Probably more.

About *your* violin playing: hey, a step above black-board scraping is a start!

Do you have a teacher, Tore? Based on your pictures of yourself playing, I actually had some technique suggestions!

I agree about the interestingness of the hardingfele's history. I love trivia like that and I'm a sucker for stuff that has to do with superstitions and folklore! Playing the fiddle seems like it's been a sinful activity indeed and the devil wasn't the only one who could teach you. There's a folklore creature called Fossegrimen (sometimes confused with Nøkken) who's usually described as a beautiful man who lives in waterfalls. He lures young women by playing his fiddle and then drowns them, but if you go to the waterfall at the right time (night time probably) with an offering, you can ask him to teach you how to play.

Fun to hear there are some norwegian genes in your family even if they're not by blood! Sounds like your mother in law has had the sort of religious upbringing my own mother had where everything from listening to the radio or talking to boys was sin. She's told me about how people would speak in tongues during church meetings and how it kept her up at night! Needless to say, I never had a religious upbringing myself.

About my own fiddle-skills, I thought about practicing and trying to get into it, but the last time I tried (when those pictures were taken), I thought .. Nah! I have a flute I'm gonna try and dedicate more time to instead. If I ever change my mind, I'll nag you for tips, though.

Petula07 · 03-05-2010, 09:03 AM

I am little bit lost in my loved thread. So it's time to join discussion again

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daktari

In this area of music which we seem to be calling 'International', how important is it for the band or singer to actually be from that country. By this I mean, surrounded by and soaking up the culture of that particular country.

I don't know so much about regaee and Jamaica so my point of view is more universal... I am not sure if my poor english is good enough to write about it but I will try.
I think international music can be played wherever but you are still influenced by the place/country. Of course you can write good song about slaves although you live in another continent but it will have different mood than similar song played or written by slave.
We can try to copy styles of musicians and we can be really really good in it but in my opinion it is still little bit different.

In my opinion some countries have so typical and special musical technique that for other people it's very difficult to do it. For example throat singing of Mongolia... Maybe we can learn it but will it be the same?

Would you be able to learn it? I guess only with some mongolian musician. Maybe I am wrong but it's only my feeling.

Probably somebody is able to absorb international music more than somebody else. It is similar with english singing... I think some singers try to be very good and they are - some people don't know if they are native English or American or not. Some other singers have so horrible english accent during singing but they aren't able to be better.

For me some magic of international music is in feelings, emotions and strange sounds. I think everybody is able to feel emotions although we don't understand lyrics.

For example this mongolian song... You don't understand but I guess you would agree with me that it's full of emotions.

Music can touch people all around the world because everybody loves, dies, eats... Sufferings and passions are the same or at least very similar.
For example I was surprised how many listeners from abroad czech singer Radůza has. Why they like her? They say her voice is very powerful and they don't need to understand because they just enjoy her voice...

I can show you how the same song is different by different musicians around the world. The same song, different voices but like one song it's very interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaqarbal

That's very kind of you, but I'm afraid I'm not an "expert" at all.

Thank you

This portuguese music is interesting. We don't have some czech radio with songs from abroad so mostly I find something on Youtube, Last.fm or from some people on internet.
I was afraid I am only one crazy person who needs more languages but I am happy to see some people are on the same way.
I think english is international language and it's really good but on the other hand some musicians have more magic in their own language. Aviv Geffen from Israel is one my example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

An audible slice of Norway as it were.

I have a flute I'm gonna try and dedicate more time to instead. If I ever change my mind, I'll nag you for tips, though.

Tore, are you from Norway? And which flute do you play?

Zaqarbal · 03-05-2010, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

The video unfortunately cut out around halfway through, so I couldn't hear it all.

Ops! It's true. I didn't realize. This one is complete. Vem ("Come to Me", trans. here) is also great. And The colors of the Sun (trans.). Their album O Espirito da Paz ("The Spirit of Peace") is really full of masterpieces.

Guybrush · 03-05-2010, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petula07

Tore, are you from Norway? And which flute do you play?

Yep, I am and the flute I'm referring to is a C-Flute I bought about a year ago. I also have a kazoo and a recorder.

Bulldog · 03-05-2010, 12:54 PM

Ah, good old throat singing! Absolutely extraordinary sound, especially if you're approaching it who thought the term had a nice ring to it and have no idea what to expect. Anyone who wants to hear this in the context of good old rock 'n' roll should hunt down Yat-Kha's Dalai Beldiri as if your life depends on it - gives a very familiar form of musical expression such a dark and unique twist.

Petula07 · 03-05-2010, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Yep, I am and the flute I'm referring to is a C-Flute I bought about a year ago. I also have a kazoo and a recorder.

That's good! Nice to meet another flute player!
If you need some help or sheets of music, tell me, I play a flute about 10 years. And all types of recorder flutes. Well... all except bass recorder

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bulldog

Ah, good old throat singing! Absolutely extraordinary sound, especially if you're approaching it who thought the term had a nice ring to it and have no idea what to expect.

When I listened throat singing for the first time, I was amazed. "How is it possible to create such a strange tone only by voice and throat" ?!
Now my sentence will be strange and funny too but... somehow this throat singing helped me to accept growl singing in metal. I hated it some years ago.
Now both types of singing are really interesting for me and still almost impossible to understand how the sound is created.

Bulldog · 03-05-2010, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petula07

When I listened throat singing for the first time, I was amazed. "How is it possible to create such a strange tone only by voice and throat" ?!
Now my sentence will be strange and funny too but... somehow this throat singing helped me to accept growl singing in metal. I hated it some years ago.
Now both types of singing are really interesting for me and still almost impossible to understand how the sound is created.

Yeah, I see what you mean there. I listen to hardly any metal myself, but throat-singing's a good way to begin to appreciate it. Very weird style as you say - it's like they pull off two or three different notes at the same time. The way to do it is to kinda use the front side of the very depths of your throat as you sing; keep your voice kinda bubbling under your mouth at all times (if that makes any sense). It's bloody hard to pull it off convincingly though.

Petula07 · 03-05-2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bulldog

Yeah, I see what you mean there. I listen to hardly any metal myself, but throat-singing's a good way to begin to appreciate it. Very weird style as you say - it's like they pull off two or three different notes at the same time. The way to do it is to kinda use the front side of the very depths of your throat as you sing; keep your voice kinda bubbling under your mouth at all times (if that makes any sense). It's bloody hard to pull it off convincingly though.

Somehow I realized it later how variety singing can be. I don't know a way how to learn it but at least I found some articles about it...

Throat singing - http://www.tarbagan.net/nodo/how/how.html

Growl - http://www.wikihow.com/Growl

I read it but I am not able to do it

About metal... I'm not typical metalhead, I appreciate some metal bands as well as some pop, rock, folk bands. My first big metal love was (and still is) band Opeth. They are proggressive metal so they have some growl and clear singing in one song. It's not easy to cathegorize them - they have also some jazzy and and blues parts. Some people who don't like death metal can enjoy Opeth.

Another band with throat singing - Huun-Huur-Tu

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03-05-2010, 12:54 PM	#37 (permalink)
Bulldog why bother? Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 4,840	Ah, good old throat singing! Absolutely extraordinary sound, especially if you're approaching it who thought the term had a nice ring to it and have no idea what to expect. Anyone who wants to hear this in the context of good old rock 'n' roll should hunt down Yat-Kha's Dalai Beldiri as if your life depends on it - gives a very familiar form of musical expression such a dark and unique twist.