Music Banter

Go Back   Music Banter > Community Center > The Lounge > Current Events, Philosophy, & Religion
Register Blogging Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Welcome to Music Banter Forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with over 70,000 other registered members. After you create your free account, you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 1,100,000 posts.

View Poll Results: Hate Crimes?
Yes 14 34.15%
No 22 53.66%
I Don't Know 2 4.88%
I Don't Care 3 7.32%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-14-2008, 08:48 AM   #151 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Methville
Posts: 2,116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruise_violet View Post
wait a sec, you are 13... are these the views of your parents or something?

that would make a lot more sense.
No it wouldn't? 13 year olds can form opinions.
The Unfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2008, 09:13 AM   #152 (permalink)
Reformed Jackass
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,961
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruise_violet View Post
wait a sec, you are 13... are these the views of your parents or something?

that would make a lot more sense.
No, I've never talked to my parents about politics. I still don't get why you want to punish people for their motives.
ProggyMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2008, 09:16 AM   #153 (permalink)
isfckingdead
 
sleepy jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 18,969
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProggyMan View Post
No, I've never talked to my parents about politics. I still don't get why you want to punish people for their motives.
Motivations tend to be responsible for crimes you know.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by METALLICA89 View Post
Ive seen you on muiltipul forums saying Metallica and slayer are the worst **** you kid go suck your **** while you listen to your ****ing emo **** I bet you do listen to emo music
sleepy jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2008, 09:17 AM   #154 (permalink)
Reformed Jackass
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,961
Default

People tend to be responsible for crimes.
ProggyMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2008, 09:18 AM   #155 (permalink)
isfckingdead
 
sleepy jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 18,969
Default

People tend to not act without any motivation smarty pants.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by METALLICA89 View Post
Ive seen you on muiltipul forums saying Metallica and slayer are the worst **** you kid go suck your **** while you listen to your ****ing emo **** I bet you do listen to emo music
sleepy jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2008, 09:57 AM   #156 (permalink)
Me llamo Marijan
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 6,984
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProggyMan View Post
People do bad things for bad reasons. They get punished for what they did, not why they did it. It doesn't matter why someone did something, and if it did, it would still be ridiculous to police it.
I'll read the rest of the thread later, I'd just like to point out that it's not the same if someone commits murder in self-defense, by accident or if it's premeditated. So yes, it certainly does matter why someone did something.
adidasss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2008, 10:04 AM   #157 (permalink)
They call me Tundra Boy
 
DontRunMeOver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In your linen cupboard.
Posts: 1,166
Default

If somebody attacks somebody because of the victim's race, sexuality or nationality I don't really see how it's worse than any 'unprovoked' attack which causes the same damage. Like you said, Ethan, people tend to have motivation for their actions... actually I'd say that people always have some kind of motivation for their actions... but I'm not sure how a man who kills somebody because the victim was *** is worse than a man who kills somebody because they 'felt like it' or because the person 'looked at them in the wrong way'.

To acknowledge hate crimes as being truly special cases would mean to me acknowledging the motivations that led the person to commit the crime. If those motivations were what provoked the criminal then to what extent could it be argued that a hate crime, as an arguably 'provoked' attack, isn't as bad as a truly random act of violence?

To me the whole idea that hate crimes deserve special treatment is a bit insulting to anybody who suffers the same crime without the 'hate' aspect.

Premeditated crimes do require different treatment to those which were in self-defense or accidental, but I don't see how premeditating a crime because of somebody's race/orientation/nationality would be worse than premeditating it for another reason. Committing it for those reasons is bad, but equally so is committing a premeditated crime for most 'non-hate' reasons.

If somebody assaulted me because they didn't like my shirt I'd think it was just as bad as if they assaulted me because I was white (unless my shirt said something very offensive).
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katyppfan View Post
When Pete plays it is 100% live , your music if that's what you call it doesn't sound so good either? so you can't really critercize can you ?

Last edited by DontRunMeOver; 04-14-2008 at 10:16 AM. Reason: Because people need to know more of what I think. It's good for them.
DontRunMeOver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2008, 10:54 AM   #158 (permalink)
Me llamo Marijan
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 6,984
Default

I'm not eloquent enough to say this with my own words so here's a very reasonable explanation on why hate crimes are and should be punished more severely than "regular" crimes:

Quote:
When it enacted the Hate Crimes Act of 2000, the New York State Legislature found that:

Hate crimes do more than threaten the safety and welfare of all citizens. They inflict on victims incalculable physical and emotional damage and tear at the very fabric of free society. Crimes motivated by invidious hatred toward particular groups not only harm individual victims but send a powerful message of intolerance and discrimination to all members of the group to which the victim belongs. Hate crimes can and do intimidate and disrupt entire communities and vitiate the civility that is essential to healthy democratic processes. In a democratic society, citizens cannot be required to approve of the beliefs and practices of others, but must never commit criminal acts on account of them.
adidasss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2008, 02:11 PM   #159 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Methville
Posts: 2,116
Default

Until you realize that "people who commit hate crimes" are members of society and having court based hatred for this group would be no more damaging to a free society than sending a message of hate to another group.
The Unfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2008, 02:33 PM   #160 (permalink)
isfckingdead
 
sleepy jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 18,969
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unfan View Post
Until you realize that "people who commit hate crimes" are members of society and having court based hatred for this group would be no more damaging to a free society than sending a message of hate to another group.
So racist and anti-homosexual groups deserve the same treatment as a minority group or homosexual group because they're just another group even if they act on those actions? Quite a few of your citizenship rights are stripped away once you've been labeled a convict you know, you're a bit less than a "member of society" after that.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by METALLICA89 View Post
Ive seen you on muiltipul forums saying Metallica and slayer are the worst **** you kid go suck your **** while you listen to your ****ing emo **** I bet you do listen to emo music
sleepy jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads



2003-2019 Advameg, Inc.

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.2 ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.