The Wow I Can't Believe That News Story Thread

[Freebase Dali]

Originally Posted by djchameleon

Why are you saying that like I speak for the entire black community? The black community isn't a unified entity. They are very separate and divided with differing opinions.

Another deflection.
And a huge failure to process the word "THAT" black community in my statement, which was there to differentiate between THE ENTIRE black community, and the one we are speaking about in reference to the voters that put a fake black man into office.

We can avoid this sort of thing by reading thoroughly.
Please do so.

[djchameleon]

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

I haven't avoided the question because it's irrelevant. We've already established that ignorant voters will vote based on advertisement versus reality. That's not even in debate here, and I'm pretty sure I even alluded to the fact in my original post when I mentioned that the guy had a good point about people not knowing who they were voting for.

Please, let's stick to the issue at hand here, which you seem to be hellbent on distracting away from.

What issue am I distracting away from? I have already told you numerous times that he won the election based off of his ideas.

I'm not defending ignorant voters either. so we both agree there. What are you trying to get me to pin down and supposedly admit to that you feel like I haven't answered already when I have numerous times already?

[Freebase Dali]

Originally Posted by djchameleon

What issue am I distracting away from? I have already told you numerous times that he won the election based off of his ideas.

I'm not defending ignorant voters either. so we both agree there. What are you trying to get me to pin down and supposedly admit to that you feel like I haven't answered already when I have numerous times already?

Short memory on you.
Couple pages back:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

So you think that if he ran his marketing campaign the same exact way, except substituted the pictures of black folks with pictures of white folks, he would have still won? (in other words, if he led voters to believe he was indeed white)

You have yet to answer this question.
It is, after all, the reason I keep asking it. And I'm asking you because you're black and I'm interested in your perspective about it. So if you wouldn't mind...

[djchameleon]

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

Short memory on you.
Couple pages back:



You have yet to answer this question.
It is, after all, the reason I keep asking it. And I'm asking you because you're black and I'm interested in your perspective about it. So if you wouldn't mind...

You are asking me because I'm black but I'm not from THAT community as you stated earlier and I don't vote for candidates just because they are black. I'm a more informed voter.

I answered that question that you quoted numerous times. You want to see where?

Originally Posted by djchameleon

It is the ideas that got him in. that's my point.

Originally Posted by djchameleon

Is because he put forth a better ad campaign with information that led people to vote for him.

You have an even shorter memory Sir.

Honestly all you have to do is think about it. Two people are running and one wins. Why did he win?

[Freebase Dali]

Originally Posted by djchameleon

You are asking me because I'm black but I'm not from THAT community as you stated earlier and I don't vote for candidates just because they are black. I'm a more informed voter.

I answered that question that you quoted numerous times. You want to see where?





You have an even shorter memory Sir.

Honestly all you have to do is think about it. Two people are running and one wins. Why did he win?

So you're refusing to answer the question because you're not from THAT community, but you're content to speak for THAT community with the statement that they picked the guy based on his campaign, while ignoring the elephant in the room that is the entire controversy of a white guy winning because he made the voters think he was black...

If your only statement is that whoever has better ideas win, I'm really not sure why you first replied with:

"Not necessarily, the whole all it takes to win an election in a black majority is to be black or not white.
In this case specifically, the guy that he was running against was black. So it was "two" black people running for the same position not just a "oh he's black let's vote for him"

If you don't see how you're making the statement that color matters, to the degree that both candidates are not black, then I don't know what to tell you...

You do realize that when you say what you have said, you're laying the groundwork for a voter base only making policy votes when the two candidates are black, don't you? You do realize that's a statement in itself, don't you? Which is why I keep asking you why you think the skin color matters. I know why it matters. I'm trying to get you to arrive at that same conclusion, which you seem unwilling to do, as though the reality of it just completely escapes you.

I'm having a hard time understanding why you're seemingly incapable of understanding this. On the other hand, I'm struggling with the possibility that you're simply unwilling to face the question that's actually being asked here.

If that voter base had not been misled by the photos of black people, would they still have voted for the white candidate based on his marketed policies?

It's a simple yes or no.
And you are simply avoiding answering it.

[djchameleon]

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

It's a simple yes or no.
And you are simply avoiding answering it.

The posts that I quoted in my previous post point to yes. I don't see why it's so hard for you to see that.

You seem to have this thought cemented in your head that black voters only vote for people that are black especially in that community.

I disagree with that.

That's the short end of it.

Also that thought about black voters only vote for people that are black make no sense if you boil it down to a situation where there are two black people to vote for which is the same as having a situation where there are two white people to vote for. How will those black people choose to vote for? What is the determining factor that they will use to pick which white person to vote for? Skin color doesn't matter as much as you think it does in this specific case.

[Freebase Dali]

Originally Posted by djchameleon

The posts that I quoted in my previous post point to yes. I don't see why it's so hard for you to see that.

You seem to have this thought cemented in your head that black voters only vote for people that are black especially in that community.

I disagree with that.

That's the short end of it.

And all this time, all it took was for you to say yes, you think that those voters would have voted in a white Republican anti-gay, because they thought his advertising campaign was swell. Noted. And thanks.

Also that thought about black voters only vote for people that are black make no sense if you boil it down to a situation where there are two black people to vote for which is the same as having a situation where there are two white people to vote for. How will those black people choose to vote for? What is the determining factor that they will use to pick which white person to vote for? Skin color doesn't matter as much as you think it does in this specific case.

This part makes absolutely no sense.

The choice between skin color is OBVIOUSLY not present where there is no difference in skin color. The choice between skin color in this situation is a hypothetical one.
However, the fact that it's so controversially "tricky" that this guy got black folks to vote for him based on an allusion that he was black, SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. I'm talking about the controversy here, not the actual marketed political issues. The fact that people think it's a game-changer to represent yourself in a different skin, regardless of the issues, is what I'm looking at, and that reflects the general perception that skin color matters more than the marketed position of a candidate.

Regarding the hypothetical situation where, in that town, there would be two white candidates, I can pretty much guarantee that whichever was a Democrat would be the in vote. And don't even DREAM of refuting that one.

In that regard, though, we're both missing the ultimate point here. People vote for their own interests. I'll go out on a limb and make a broad assumption that black folks will probably vote for black candidates because they're the most likely to understand their situation and be sympathetic to it. People vote on their own self interests. Same on the other side of the fence. We can both acknowledge this.
My only gripe is that, as this case shows, they're not even doing that much for themselves. That community would obviously be far better represented if they would have taken the time to learn about the candidate, versus checking the "black" box and just voting on which commercials made them feel better.

That's my own opinion, though. Doesn't have anything to do with yours, and I don't claim it to.

[djchameleon]

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

Regarding the hypothetical situation where, in that town, there would be two white candidates, I can pretty much guarantee that whichever was a Democrat would be the in vote. And don't even DREAM of refuting that one.

You can guarantee it huh? I don't even know why you think that makes the slightest sense that in the specific community where they ended up voting based on ads rather than if the person was a republican or Democrat that they would all of sudden wisen up and say. Oh let's vote for the Democrat. Hell no they wouldn't They would vote for whoever has the best ad campaign.

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

In that regard, though, we're both missing the ultimate point here. People vote for their own interests. I'll go out on a limb and make a broad assumption that black folks will probably vote for black candidates because they're the most likely to understand their situation and be sympathetic to it. People vote on their own self interests. Same on the other side of the fence. We can both acknowledge this.

Why don't black Republicans get more votes then? This whole statement and train of thought that black people will just end up voting for whoever is black doesn't make sense to me. If a white democrat runs up against a black republican. The black republican isn't going to win. Unless that black republican was running in the Houston area and had a better ad campaign but I'm talking about anywhere else.

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

My only gripe is that, as this case shows, they're not even doing that much for themselves. That community would obviously be far better represented if they would have taken the time to learn about the candidate, versus checking the "black" box and just voting on which commercials made them feel better.

That's my own opinion, though. Doesn't have anything to do with yours, and I don't claim it to.

There were two "black" boxes to choose from. They weren't just voting for a black candidate. As I said in an early post I do agree that voters should educate themselves regardless of the race of a candidate though instead of voting based on commercials/attack ads. I didn't even think attack ads were effective but I'm completely wrong I guess. I thought people just made fun of those ads and end up fact checking to see if what was being said is true but I guess that only applies to myself and other educated voters.

[Scarlett O'Hara]

Originally Posted by djchameleon

You can guarantee it huh? I don't even know why you think that makes the slightest sense that in the specific community where they ended up voting based on ads rather than if the person was a republican or Democrat that they would all of sudden wisen up and say. Oh let's vote for the Democrat. Hell no they wouldn't They would vote for whoever has the best ad campaign.



Why don't black Republicans get more votes then? This whole statement and train of thought that black people will just end up voting for whoever is black doesn't make sense to me. If a white democrat runs up against a black republican. The black republican isn't going to win. Unless that black republican was running in the Houston area and had a better ad campaign but I'm talking about anywhere else.



There were two "black" boxes to choose from. They weren't just voting for a black candidate. As I said in an early post I do agree that voters should educate themselves regardless of the race of a candidate though instead of voting based on commercials/attack ads. I didn't even think attack ads were effective but I'm completely wrong I guess. I thought people just made fun of those ads and end up fact checking to see if what was being said is true but I guess that only applies to myself and other educated voters.

I imagine there is a proportion of people who only go by what they've seen on TV because they are too lazy or disinterested to research the candidates to see which one suits their needs.

[djchameleon]

Originally Posted by Vanilla

I imagine there is a proportion of people who only go by what they've seen on TV because they are too lazy or disinterested to research the candidates to see which one suits their needs.

yeah I understand that. It is the main reason that poor people in the south end up voting Republican when that whole party hates poor people and has started a war against them.