How Real Is Christianity?

Zaqarbal · 07-18-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayJamJah

Ut-oh

Yeah, that's it! That's what we need. More Campbell's. Joseph Campbell. Or any other good expert on comparative religion. It's always interesting, and for sure we'll find some answers. For instance, let's see those f***ing apples....

Quote:

Originally Posted by pahuuuta

firstly, the snake taunted adam and eve with a apple from the tree in the garden of eden, correct? the garden of eden "was" located in israel, which is near the mediterranean. . . . .apples DO NOT grow in the Mediterranean....

Keep in mind that Christian iconography is often inspired by that from other religions, even if the subject in question has nothing to do with it. Look, four years ago I took this photo of a Roman mosaic from the 3rd century:

Hercules stealing the golden apples from the Garden of the Hesperides. And that reptile is Ladon.

According to Greek mythology, that blissful garden (you can see the resemblance to the Christian Paradise) was in the western corner of the World. That is, the known world to the Greek civilization at that age. Thus, some ancient Greek authors such as Strabo and Stesichorus said that paradise was located in the Iberian peninsula (and that show us, one more time, the well-known intelligence, wisdom, shrewdness and ability to get right of the ancient Greeks).

Now, notice the underlying concept: in both cases the order, the stability, gets broken. To keep the good state of balance, the apples of the Hesperides must stay at the garden, and Adam and Eve must not eat the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge.

jibber · 07-19-2010, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaqarbal

Keep in mind that Christian iconography is often inspired by that from other religions, even if the subject in question has nothing to do with it.

REALLY interesting subject if you look into it in any depth. A lot of my art history courses dealt with how early christian rulers took "pagan" iconography and transformed it into Christian subject matter to make the transition between religions go more smoothly. Early depictions of halos around the virgin mary and jesus were depicted as solid yellow discs, exactly the same as how many earlier Sun Deities were depicted.

Also, think of the common image of God in human form. Old man, long white beard...sound familiar? There's a reason why early Christian art (especially around Constantine's reign in the Roman Empire) actually visually portrayed God as a human form very similar to Zeus. Over time, once Christianity was established, portraying God as a human was phased out in art.

**Janszoon** · 07-19-2010, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibber

REALLY interesting subject if you look into it in any depth. A lot of my art history courses dealt with how early christian rulers took "pagan" iconography and transformed it into Christian subject matter to make the transition between religions go more smoothly. Early depictions of halos around the virgin mary and jesus were depicted as solid yellow discs, exactly the same as how many earlier Sun Deities were depicted.

Also, think of the common image of God in human form. Old man, long white beard...sound familiar? There's a reason why early Christian art (especially around Constantine's reign in the Roman Empire) actually visually portrayed God as a human form very similar to Zeus. Over time, once Christianity was established, portraying God as a human was phased out in art.

I agree that it is a very interesting topic. By the same token I've always found it interesting to read about some of the older mythology Christianity adapted for different Bible stories and of course the pagan holidays that evolved into Christmas and Easter.

boo boo · 07-19-2010, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

Wow, boo boo, your sleep paralysis sounds like a wild and fascinating experience...probably scary, too, though maybe you get used to it?

Sometimes when I'm drifting off to sleep, but very rarely, I'll suddenly think I hear something...it's as if a dream has started when I'm not yet quite asleep. It might just be the sound of a person's voice saying a word. But it *sounds* like a real sound and startles me, so I become fully awake.

It is similar to when you are dreaming and in the dream you hear sounds as if they were real. Dreams do show the brain's/mind's capacity for concocting very odd and sometimes disturbing "experiences." I'm glad I've never dreamed/thought a dog was gnawing on my head!

One time, I awoke (I think) and I just stayed in position trying to get back to sleep. And then I heard this LOUD explosion that startled the f*ck out of me, I start yelling and run into the hallway, my grandma is in the bathroom and I say "did you hear that?" and she said "you screaming? yeah", I turn back to my room, look out the window, nothing.

Very weird.

And yeah, I was having a dream that I was being chased by a dog, then I wake up and I can't move and there's this thing with it's jaw around my head making these awful sounds, I shake myself and it's gone.

duga · 07-19-2010, 02:34 PM

Ah, the sleep paralysis thing. I have that sometimes. The thing that shows up in your room is typically the scariest thing your mind can come up with at that particular moment. My most recent one had me waking up with my ex gf laying on top of me. That should tell you something about my current feelings towards her.

Whenever this happens to me, I am more fascinated than scared. Sure, my subconscious mind is screaming just like it should but my conscious mind is more like "hm wtf"

boo boo · 07-19-2010, 02:48 PM

Back on topic, and in response to chard.

So god is going to be more harsh to those who HAVE read the bible and reject Christianity? And that's because they know the truth and choose to deny it?

First of all, how would reading the bible PROVE anything? How would having reading it mean that you KNOW the truth? So does that mean everyone who has read the bible and rejects Christianity KNOWS the truth but they reject it making it a much more severe sin?

How about this alternative scenario. Maybe people read the bible, and they reject Christianity not because they're denying some irrefutable truth but because they think it's a load of BS that can't be proven?

duga · 07-19-2010, 03:10 PM

Oh, damn...I thought this was the dream thread.

I'm so tired of arguing about Christianity. I think the philosophy of Christianity can be just as real as any other. The literal interpretation that is so popular amongst Christians is as close to being real as Vanilla Ice's talent as a musician. What I mean when I say philosophy is that the bible should NEVER have been taken literally. Jesus said he is the son of god because we are ALL sons of god. God is personified to make understanding him easier just as many Hindu gods are. He is not actually a bearded guy in the sky.

I don't know if anyone said all this before, but I really didn't feel like reading through the whole thread.

Zaqarbal · 07-19-2010, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibber

REALLY interesting subject if you look into it in any depth. A lot of my art history courses dealt with how early christian rulers took "pagan" iconography and transformed it into Christian subject matter to make the transition between religions go more smoothly. Early depictions of halos around the virgin mary and jesus were depicted as solid yellow discs, exactly the same as how many earlier Sun Deities were depicted.

Also, think of the common image of God in human form. Old man, long white beard...sound familiar? There's a reason why early Christian art (especially around Constantine's reign in the Roman Empire) actually visually portrayed God as a human form very similar to Zeus. Over time, once Christianity was established, portraying God as a human was phased out in art.

Exactly. I've always been curious about influences between religions. Sometimes it's a complex matter and you have to read a lot of things about History, culture, social and psychological archetypes, etc. And sometimes it is simpler and easy to understand.

Some issues are almost like a child game. For example, to many ancient peoples the following beliefs are very simple: humans live on Earth; deities are in the sky; so intermediaries between the two are... are... errr... winged beings, perhaps? Yes!

Obvious. In fact, the word angel means "messenger" in ancient Greek. And once more, Jews and Christians weren't "original":

The Classical winged messenger: Hermes for the Greeks or Mercury for the Romans. And to be honest, it is disappointing to see how those ancient Middle-East shepherds changed an efficient, elegant and ergonomic design for a crude, flamboyant, kitsch and sexless chicken-frankenstein-like creature.

Culturally speaking, in my opinion (as an agnostic) Hermes/Mercury is more interesting than the Christian angels.

The so-called fallen angels are also a Christian "copy" (iconographic and symbolic) of Classical myths, but that's another story...

crash_override · 07-19-2010, 06:13 PM

This **** is real, and it scares the living **** out of me.

boo boo · 07-19-2010, 08:41 PM

The kids speaking in tongues thing. I went to my brother's youth church a few times when I was a teen and all the kids were doing it, it was strange.

07-19-2010, 02:34 PM	#905 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	Ah, the sleep paralysis thing. I have that sometimes. The thing that shows up in your room is typically the scariest thing your mind can come up with at that particular moment. My most recent one had me waking up with my ex gf laying on top of me. That should tell you something about my current feelings towards her. Whenever this happens to me, I am more fascinated than scared. Sure, my subconscious mind is screaming just like it should but my conscious mind is more like "hm wtf" __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

07-19-2010, 03:10 PM	#907 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	Oh, damn...I thought this was the dream thread. I'm so tired of arguing about Christianity. I think the philosophy of Christianity can be just as real as any other. The literal interpretation that is so popular amongst Christians is as close to being real as Vanilla Ice's talent as a musician. What I mean when I say philosophy is that the bible should NEVER have been taken literally. Jesus said he is the son of god because we are ALL sons of god. God is personified to make understanding him easier just as many Hindu gods are. He is not actually a bearded guy in the sky. I don't know if anyone said all this before, but I really didn't feel like reading through the whole thread. __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...