Depression and suicide

YorkeDaddy · 02-24-2015, 06:17 PM

This obnoxious kid keeps saying "I'm far more educated about this than all of you"

...okay, what are your qualifications? You haven't told us what makes you such an expert on Psychology, you just claim to be an expert on Psychology by default.

I'm a scholarshipped Psychology major at one of the best Psych programs in the country studying under LEGENDS in the field...and I think you're an arrogant douchebag with an absurd view on depression and I don't think you're qualified at all to talk to people about depression.

grtwhtgrvty · 02-24-2015, 06:30 PM

I never said I was an expert. I said I was more educated than someone saying it was stupid to view depression as something that isn't a choice.

You remind me of my cousin who is also a psych major and labeled depression as "not having any feelings whatsoever"

I'm qualified because I'm educated and I've suffered from Bipolar Type II, PTSD, and anxiety disorder my entire life. I had my first depressive episode at the age of six. I'm educated by my therapists, my psychiatrists, and my nurse practitioner, as well as the literature that they give me. So I actually have first hand experience on the subject, and second hand experience witnessing someone who literally won't even move because their depression is so terrible. Literally they sit there and get fed and then **** themselves. They barely sleep. They sit there staring blankly peeing and pooping when they need to onto the bed, onto the clothes, etc. You think it's a choice? That the person is rationally and coherently choosing to sit motionlessly all day ****ting themselves?

You've been in school for a couple of years and read textbooks about it. I've actually lived it ONTOP of reading a great deal about it so don't question my education because this is what I've learned first hand and what I've been told point blank by every therapist I've ever had.

Have fun with your textbook but whatever you learn in your textbook doesn't really mean anything or compare to the reality of it and I'm surprised they didn't tell you that on day one.

Oriphiel · 02-24-2015, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grtwhtgrvty

Implying suicide as a ritual to fulfill societal obligation isn't a sign of mental illness.

Yes, people committed suicide all the time back then. The most popular reason was that if you screwed up, your family could be held accountable for your actions and executed. If you committed seppuku, legally nobody could touch your family without expecting punishment. It was a valid choice that people made, and someone doesn't have to be mentally ill to want to protect their family, no matter the cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grtwhtgrvty

The same person who murdered a stranger in cold blood before killing himself as a part of a satanic ritual. Totally sane. you're right. No mental illness there.

You don't know what Satanism is, do you? It's a legitimate religion, and often has little to nothing to do with the worshiping satan (the "satan" in the name "satanism" is a metaphor for social taboos, and how they should be questioned. The figure of satan is something they admire, kind of like a patron saint, but they don't religiously worship him). The majority of Satanists are non-violent. Look up Aleister Crowley sometime.

Satanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

Originally Posted by grtwhtgrvty

Oh really?

a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result.

Pasted from the very link I sent you. It even uses the word 'expects'

That only works if what Chula posted was incorrect. And all he posted were actual scientific examples of the roots of suicidal tendencies, and a valid definition of suicide. And instead of actually reading them, you insulted him for bringing up scientific sources.

Hell, if you want an example of someone choosing to end their life, you don't even have to leave the website. http://www.musicbanter.com/current-e...-her-life.html

The Batlord · 02-24-2015, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grtwhtgrvty

I never said I was an expert. I said I was more educated than someone saying it was stupid to view depression as something that isn't a choice.

You remind me of my cousin who is also a psych major and labeled depression as "not having any feelings whatsoever"

I'm qualified because I'm educated and I've suffered from Bipolar Type II, PTSD, and anxiety disorder my entire life. I had my first depressive episode at the age of six. I'm educated by my therapists, my psychiatrists, and my nurse practitioner, as well as the literature that they give me. So I actually have first hand experience on the subject, and second hand experience witnessing someone who literally won't even move because their depression is so terrible. Literally they sit there and get fed and then **** themselves. They barely sleep. They sit there staring blankly peeing and pooping when they need to onto the bed, onto the clothes, etc. You think it's a choice? That the person is rationally and coherently choosing to sit motionlessly all day ****ting themselves?

You've been in school for a couple of years and read textbooks about it. I've actually lived it ONTOP of reading a great deal about it so don't question my education because this is what I've learned first hand and what I've been told point blank by every therapist I've ever had.

Have fun with your textbook but whatever you learn in your textbook doesn't really mean anything or compare to the reality of it and I'm surprised they didn't tell you that on day one.

Oh so you were in a mental institution, huh? It's all coming together now.

Xurtio · 02-24-2015, 06:43 PM

Whether an action that is a culturally accepted norm is considered a mental illness or not depends on who you ask. Wakefield's (1992) perspective was that cultural norms matter, and that is how abnormal psychology was taught during my master's program. In the first place, you can't confuse your values with mental illness. You talk about people murdering and committing suicide with a tone of disgust, but you can't demonstrate mental dysfunction by the behavior itself.

Consider this: many animals kill each other and sacrifice themselves for their kin as a normal part of survival. Humans have done it to each other since they speciated, and their ape ancestors before them were no different. Are their brains somehow broken just because they're doing something that disgusts you? No.

Don't get me wrong, I would carpet bomb a city of murderers and rapists because they're not my people, but I don't have to marginalize them by calling them mentally ill; that their values are so different from mine is enough for me to justify it to myself and many of my contemporaries.

Oriphiel · 02-24-2015, 06:45 PM

Alright, let's end this argument. Here's the website for the American Foundation of Suicide Prevention, specifically the page about research findings:

https://www.afsp.org/understanding-s...earch-findings

According to them, 90% of suicide victims had mental illnesses. That's a very clear majority, but by no means a totality. They also elaborate that there are many people who attempt to commit suicide due to their life situation, despite not previously being mentally ill or having a history of such, like people who don't want their families to have to pay expensive medical bills for a terminal illness.

So in a way, everyone is right. Mental illness is the leading cause of suicide, but there are other causes as well. Now, let's all go back to our lives.

Xurtio · 02-24-2015, 06:47 PM

For example, PTSD is a mental dysfunction - stimuli that are not threatening are interpreted as threatening by the brain. This could lead to you killing someone, but the act of killing someone isn't what defines the PTSD.

The behavior of killing yourself or someone else may the most beneficial (and therefore "logical") response to a real threat to you or your kin.

grtwhtgrvty · 02-24-2015, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Oh so you were in a mental institution, huh? It's all coming together now.

No I've never been admitted to a hospital. I was abused, physically and emotionally my entire chlidhood from the age of 4 by my mother who suffers from a multitude of disorders herself. I haven't spoken to her in years because she told me she didn't love me and then left. I essentially don't have a mom.

Quote:

Yes, people committed suicide all the time back then. The most popular reason was that if you screwed up, your family could be held accountable for your actions and executed. If you committed seppuku, legally nobody could touch your family without expecting punishment. It was a valid choice that people made, and someone doesn't have to be mentally ill to want to protect their family, no matter the cost.

But living in such a traumatizing, extreme society isn't comparable even remotely to modern times. Back in ancient times rape and pillaging was normal and people believed the world was flat, but that doesn't validate. I see your point, but I don't think that the psychology and mentality of that time period applies to contemporary society. it was simply a different world -- a different mindset. also, did they really have a choice? Obviously you're going to protect your family anyway you can. That's a good point, but I don't think that it applies.

Also, you can liken seppuku to cultural conditioning more than anything else. Obviously it's a choice that's made but it's too abstract to apply to contemporary society.

Quote:

You don't know what Satanism is, do you? It's a legitimate religion, and often has little to nothing to do with the worshiping satan (the "satan" in the name "satanism" is a metaphor for social taboos, and how they should be questioned. The figure of satan is something they admire, kind of like a patron saint, but they don't religiously worship him). The majority of Satanists are non-violent. Look up Aleister Crowley sometime.

The Satanic religion actually frowns heavily upon suicide. I've never once heard of it being a common theme in the religion. I'd like to see some sources on that because all the research I've done states heavily otherwise. The person that he linked was a metal artist who murdered someone and then killed himself. He was clearly a psychopath because he murdered a stranger. It wasn't relevant. The wiki article that you linked.. I searched and there's not even a single instance of the word suicide.

Quote:

That only works if what Chula posted was incorrect. And all he posted were actual scientific examples of the roots of suicidal tendencies, and a valid definition of suicide. And instead of actually reading them, you insulted him for bringing up scientific sources.

Hell, if you want an example of someone choosing to end their life, you don't even have to leave the website. http://www.musicbanter.com/current-e...-her-life.html

I'm done explaining why it was ironic. That's so irrelevant and semantical at this point I just don't care.

Oriphiel · 02-24-2015, 06:56 PM

Ugh, you're really gonna make me re-post this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

Alright, let's end this argument. Here's the website for the American Foundation of Suicide Prevention, specifically the page about research findings:

https://www.afsp.org/understanding-s...earch-findings

According to them, 90% of suicide victims had mental illnesses. That's a very clear majority, but by no means a totality. They also elaborate that there are many people who attempt to commit suicide due to their life situation, despite not previously being mentally ill or having a history of such, like people who don't want their families to have to pay expensive medical bills for a terminal illness.

So in a way, everyone is right. Mental illness is the leading cause of suicide, but there are other causes as well. Now, let's all go back to our lives.

YorkeDaddy · 02-24-2015, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grtwhtgrvty

I never said I was an expert. I said I was more educated than someone saying it was stupid to view depression as something that isn't a choice.

You remind me of my cousin who is also a psych major and labeled depression as "not having any feelings whatsoever"

I said nothing about the subject and merely supplied my qualifications, so you then decide to lump me in with some family member who made an imbecilic statement and probably barely passed Psych 101. Makes sense. Seems like you enjoy making grand assumptions about people and they are all automatically negative, which makes you the worst kind of person.

Quote:

I'm qualified because I'm educated and I've suffered from Bipolar Type II, PTSD, and anxiety disorder my entire life. I had my first depressive episode at the age of six. I'm educated by my therapists, my psychiatrists, and my nurse practitioner, as well as the literature that they give me. So I actually have first hand experience on the subject, and second hand experience witnessing someone who literally won't even move because their depression is so terrible. Literally they sit there and get fed and then **** themselves. They barely sleep. They sit there staring blankly peeing and pooping when they need to onto the bed, onto the clothes, etc. You think it's a choice? That the person is rationally and coherently choosing to sit motionlessly all day ****ting themselves?

You keep saying you're "educated"...and yet you don't actually have an education on the subject? Lolk. So you instead decide to project your personal experiences about something that is experienced differently by everyone (as you should know if you actually knew as much as you say you do)...makes sense.

Why are you focusing on the "choice" of depression bullcrap? Did I bring that up? No? Okay so let's stop rambling about irrelevant subjects. Now let's talk about something that actually IS absurd: that suicide is a "symptom" of depression and that it isn't done by choice. Did anyone in your loony bin actually tell you what a symptom is????????? Does every severe case of depression conclude in suicide????????

Quote:

You've been in school for a couple of years and read textbooks about it. I've actually lived it ONTOP of reading a great deal about it so don't question my education because this is what I've learned first hand and what I've been told point blank by every therapist I've ever had.

Have fun with your textbook but whatever you learn in your textbook doesn't really mean anything or compare to the reality of it and I'm surprised they didn't tell you that on day one.

Gross, textbooks. I don't even buy textbooks because they're possibly the biggest ripoff in the history of monetary transactions. I'd rather go and learn from my Ph.D professors who have been published 50+ times in accredited Psychology journals. But yeah your "nurse practitioner" is the truly valid source here (LMAO), if only I had learned what I've learned from a nurse practitioner, then maybe I'd be on the same intellectual level as you.

I find it tremendously hilarious that you claim to have such a troubled past and yet you use your free time to come and act like such an arrogant prick to anyone that disputes your subjective claims about "choices" that don't even matter, because at the end of the day you think you have a perfect grasp of something that's not graspable and nobody is impressed or amused by your ad hominem outbursts

View Poll Results: Is suicide cowardly?
Yes	39	20.74%
No	79	42.02%
Sometimes, depends on the circumstances (kids etc.)	70	37.23%
Voters: 188. You may not vote on this poll

02-24-2015, 06:43 PM	#755 (permalink)
Xurtio Brain Licker Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 1,083	Whether an action that is a culturally accepted norm is considered a mental illness or not depends on who you ask. Wakefield's (1992) perspective was that cultural norms matter, and that is how abnormal psychology was taught during my master's program. In the first place, you can't confuse your values with mental illness. You talk about people murdering and committing suicide with a tone of disgust, but you can't demonstrate mental dysfunction by the behavior itself. Consider this: many animals kill each other and sacrifice themselves for their kin as a normal part of survival. Humans have done it to each other since they speciated, and their ape ancestors before them were no different. Are their brains somehow broken just because they're doing something that disgusts you? No. Don't get me wrong, I would carpet bomb a city of murderers and rapists because they're not my people, but I don't have to marginalize them by calling them mentally ill; that their values are so different from mine is enough for me to justify it to myself and many of my contemporaries. __________________ H̓̇̅̉yͤ͏mͬ͂ͧn͑̽̽̌ͪ̑͐͟o̴͊̈́͑̇m͛͌̓ͦ̑aͫ̽ͤ̇n̅̎͐̒ͫ͐c̆ͯͫ̋ ̔̃́eͯ͒rͬͬ̄҉

02-24-2015, 06:45 PM	#756 (permalink)
Oriphiel Ask me how! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: The States Posts: 5,355	Alright, let's end this argument. Here's the website for the American Foundation of Suicide Prevention, specifically the page about research findings: https://www.afsp.org/understanding-s...earch-findings According to them, 90% of suicide victims had mental illnesses. That's a very clear majority, but by no means a totality. They also elaborate that there are many people who attempt to commit suicide due to their life situation, despite not previously being mentally ill or having a history of such, like people who don't want their families to have to pay expensive medical bills for a terminal illness. So in a way, everyone is right. Mental illness is the leading cause of suicide, but there are other causes as well. Now, let's all go back to our lives. __________________ ---------------------- \|---Mic's Albums---\| ---------------------- ----------------------------- \|---Deafbox Industries---\| -----------------------------

02-24-2015, 06:47 PM	#757 (permalink)
Xurtio Brain Licker Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 1,083	For example, PTSD is a mental dysfunction - stimuli that are not threatening are interpreted as threatening by the brain. This could lead to you killing someone, but the act of killing someone isn't what defines the PTSD. The behavior of killing yourself or someone else may the most beneficial (and therefore "logical") response to a real threat to you or your kin. __________________ H̓̇̅̉yͤ͏mͬ͂ͧn͑̽̽̌ͪ̑͐͟o̴͊̈́͑̇m͛͌̓ͦ̑aͫ̽ͤ̇n̅̎͐̒ͫ͐c̆ͯͫ̋ ̔̃́eͯ͒rͬͬ̄҉

02-24-2015, 06:30 PM	#752 (permalink)
grtwhtgrvty jiojoijoi Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 398	I never said I was an expert. I said I was more educated than someone saying it was stupid to view depression as something that isn't a choice. You remind me of my cousin who is also a psych major and labeled depression as "not having any feelings whatsoever" I'm qualified because I'm educated and I've suffered from Bipolar Type II, PTSD, and anxiety disorder my entire life. I had my first depressive episode at the age of six. I'm educated by my therapists, my psychiatrists, and my nurse practitioner, as well as the literature that they give me. So I actually have first hand experience on the subject, and second hand experience witnessing someone who literally won't even move because their depression is so terrible. Literally they sit there and get fed and then ** themselves. They barely sleep. They sit there staring blankly peeing and pooping when they need to onto the bed, onto the clothes, etc. You think it's a choice? That the person is rationally and coherently choosing to sit motionlessly all day **ting themselves? You've been in school for a couple of years and read textbooks about it. I've actually lived it ONTOP of reading a great deal about it so don't question my education because this is what I've learned first hand and what I've been told point blank by every therapist I've ever had. Have fun with your textbook but whatever you learn in your textbook doesn't really mean anything or compare to the reality of it and I'm surprised they didn't tell you that on day one.