London riots

Ben Butler · 08-17-2011, 08:02 PM

I wouldn't have them in jail. Cameron is coming down too hard on them. Giving them pointless sentences in already overcrowded prisons is not the answer.

They need to be made to face up to the victims of their crimes and the impacts they have had on them. Opportunities to find employment and education should then be presented, providing they stay within the law and take some responsibility. Cameron and the rest of his Tories coming down hard is rather hypocritical dare I say. Aren't his party, the ones who were cosey with Murdoch and the News of The World hacking and the expenes scandal? He should also stop slating the police and give them some respect. Britain is not broken, it's a multicultural society where communities thrive, already it is back to normal where we have picked ourselves up after what happened last week with the riots like nothing has happened! Maybe Cameron should be the one taking a long hard look at himself and his prejudicing, elitist, detached from reality party?

Mykonos · 08-18-2011, 02:05 AM

I doub the Tories would do worse than Labour in controlling the riots (both would probably struggle equally) but I agree, they are coming down too hard on rioters. If a man steals a bottle of water, he deserves the same punishment for stealing it in a riot as he should receive for stealing it normally. That's assuming he didn't get a higher sentence for breakig and entering or something.

Ben Butler · 08-18-2011, 10:14 AM

This guy just organised some event on Facebook, people put all kinds of silly things on there that are not to be taken seriously. It was humiliating enough no one turning up the unusual location he arranged and he will lose a lot of friends over this.

Four years is absolutely ridiculous considering he didn't really do anything wrong and you have most people being banged up for no more than six months for far more serious offences.Cameron is coming down far too tough, politicians should not be interfering in the judical process. The Conservative party are hypocrites, these are the same people involved in the expenses scandal, banking crisis and phone hacking scandal. Or is the message, if you are in a suit the law doesn't apply!

Back to my other point, the reaction of the communities hit by rioting youngsters was to come together to clean up. A week after the riots, there are few burn out buildings and longer term problems. But for most of the areas involved, it's back to business as usual. Britain isn't broken, it's remarkably fit and healthy. We have a resilient multicultural society with a high level of security in our relationships.

I am far more frightened by the vindictive condemnation and desire for harsh punishment by the goverment and the right wing press than by the looting. I feel sorry for the kids caught up in the mindless excitement of the crowd and paying a heavy price because the goverment wishes to crush those involved rather than have to consider its responsibility for what may be going wrong. I fear we have a goverment with no clue how the other half live and which does not seem to give one!

Paedantic Basterd · 08-18-2011, 10:16 AM

Haven't looked to see if this has been shared, but: A bit much, no?

Essex police charge man over water fight planned on BlackBerry Messenger | Media | The Guardian

Mykonos · 08-18-2011, 12:44 PM

@Ben Butler Please man, don't make me defend the Tories. I don't suppor them so I'm not a fan for leaning on their side of the fence, but try not to get too biased in your arguments or accuse them of things they might not have done or were as equally guilty of as other parties.

@Pedestrian Haha, a water fight? As in, playing-around-with-water-like-children-are-legally-allowed-to-do water fights? That's a joke, and if they think they're going to be able to shut down or block social networking, then they will not find it going down well. They may as well ban people from speaking to each other, seeing as that can help with organising crime.

Ben Butler · 08-19-2011, 12:27 PM

Seriously, five months for handling a pair of stolen shorts and stealing a bottle of water!

It states in today's Guardian that convicted rioters are getting 25 % longer prison sentences than they normally would at a magistrates court. Also, 70 % of rioters are imprisoned, 2 % is the usual figure for a magistrates court. They would usually get community service or a fine, the sentences are disproportianate to their crimes.

Our prisons are already far too overcrowded, why make the situation worse? Sending them to prison isn't the answer to everything! Why not get them on Schemes such as the operation in Boston, America where gangs are given help to find jobs and education, providing they abide by the law.

Oh,and I suppose the riots aren't linked with poverty when the statistics suggest they are. 66 % of rioters are from areas in decline, 41 % are from the top ten most deprived areas in the country in terms of child poverty, educational attainment and employment prospects. The Tories really do need to wake up and adress a) the root causes of the issues and b) to actually adress them rather than come up with some tosh saying they can help 120,000 of our most troubled families!

It is a good read by the way in the ever reliable Guardian newspaper, even if it is very much left wing.

FETCHER. · 08-19-2011, 04:53 PM

A young guy in Glasgow got arrested for statusing something encouraging rioting in Glasgow. Silly bastard.

Unknown Soldier · 08-19-2011, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Butler

Seriously, five months for handling a pair of stolen shorts and stealing a bottle of water!

It states in today's Guardian that convicted rioters are getting 25 % longer prison sentences than they normally would at a magistrates court. Also, 70 % of rioters are imprisoned, 2 % is the usual figure for a magistrates court. They would usually get community service or a fine, the sentences are disproportianate to their crimes.

But surely you can see the difference between stealing a pair of shorts and bottle of water in a riot compared to normal circumstances? One is just a normal case of theft, whereas the other is theft whilst participating in an orgy of agression against society and the establishment.

I don`t find the thefts particuarly serious offences, but what I do find disturbing, is just how easily people are swept up by the mood of a riot and become part of the rabble, that then participates in theft, violence and the damaging of personal property. As for the rioters, I think the sentences are too light and should range from very heavy fines to longer term prison sentences. The message has to be, that this form of behaviour is just not really acceptable in a modern society and BTW before you suggest I`m a conservative.......well I`m not.

Mojo · 08-20-2011, 01:54 AM

"The prisons are overcrowded, so don't send them to jail"? Is that really your argument?

The numbers of unemployed are through the roof too, yet you want to give jobs to these people?

Personally I think if anyone could be caught up in the "excitment" of a riot then they deserve to be jailed. Theres nothing exciting about it. They could just sit and watch it on Sky News like the rest of us. If they choose to be a part of it and to be a part of the problem then they should be made to face the consequences.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-20-2011, 01:57 AM

Just stick more people in cells.

If you don't want to spend 3 years getting intimate with a guy called 'Big Dave' then don't put yourself in the position of being thrown in there.

08-18-2011, 02:05 AM	#92 (permalink)
Mykonos AWhatup Ganache? Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 381	I doub the Tories would do worse than Labour in controlling the riots (both would probably struggle equally) but I agree, they are coming down too hard on rioters. If a man steals a bottle of water, he deserves the same punishment for stealing it in a riot as he should receive for stealing it normally. That's assuming he didn't get a higher sentence for breakig and entering or something. __________________ 'Not that Becktionary, the Rhyming Becktionary!'- Bender Bending Rodriguez

08-18-2011, 12:44 PM	#95 (permalink)
Mykonos AWhatup Ganache? Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 381	@Ben Butler Please man, don't make me defend the Tories. I don't suppor them so I'm not a fan for leaning on their side of the fence, but try not to get too biased in your arguments or accuse them of things they might not have done or were as equally guilty of as other parties. @Pedestrian Haha, a water fight? As in, playing-around-with-water-like-children-are-legally-allowed-to-do water fights? That's a joke, and if they think they're going to be able to shut down or block social networking, then they will not find it going down well. They may as well ban people from speaking to each other, seeing as that can help with organising crime. __________________ 'Not that Becktionary, the Rhyming Becktionary!'- Bender Bending Rodriguez

08-20-2011, 01:54 AM	#99 (permalink)
Mojo Melancholia Eternally Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: England Posts: 5,018	"The prisons are overcrowded, so don't send them to jail"? Is that really your argument? The numbers of unemployed are through the roof too, yet you want to give jobs to these people? Personally I think if anyone could be caught up in the "excitment" of a riot then they deserve to be jailed. Theres nothing exciting about it. They could just sit and watch it on Sky News like the rest of us. If they choose to be a part of it and to be a part of the problem then they should be made to face the consequences. __________________ Last.FM \| Echoes and Dust

08-20-2011, 01:57 AM	#100 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,605	Just stick more people in cells. If you don't want to spend 3 years getting intimate with a guy called 'Big Dave' then don't put yourself in the position of being thrown in there. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.

08-17-2011, 08:02 PM	#91 (permalink)
Ben Butler Music Addict Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Rudheath Posts: 393	I wouldn't have them in jail. Cameron is coming down too hard on them. Giving them pointless sentences in already overcrowded prisons is not the answer. They need to be made to face up to the victims of their crimes and the impacts they have had on them. Opportunities to find employment and education should then be presented, providing they stay within the law and take some responsibility. Cameron and the rest of his Tories coming down hard is rather hypocritical dare I say. Aren't his party, the ones who were cosey with Murdoch and the News of The World hacking and the expenes scandal? He should also stop slating the police and give them some respect. Britain is not broken, it's a multicultural society where communities thrive, already it is back to normal where we have picked ourselves up after what happened last week with the riots like nothing has happened! Maybe Cameron should be the one taking a long hard look at himself and his prejudicing, elitist, detached from reality party?

08-18-2011, 10:14 AM	#93 (permalink)
Ben Butler Music Addict Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Rudheath Posts: 393	This guy just organised some event on Facebook, people put all kinds of silly things on there that are not to be taken seriously. It was humiliating enough no one turning up the unusual location he arranged and he will lose a lot of friends over this. Four years is absolutely ridiculous considering he didn't really do anything wrong and you have most people being banged up for no more than six months for far more serious offences.Cameron is coming down far too tough, politicians should not be interfering in the judical process. The Conservative party are hypocrites, these are the same people involved in the expenses scandal, banking crisis and phone hacking scandal. Or is the message, if you are in a suit the law doesn't apply! Back to my other point, the reaction of the communities hit by rioting youngsters was to come together to clean up. A week after the riots, there are few burn out buildings and longer term problems. But for most of the areas involved, it's back to business as usual. Britain isn't broken, it's remarkably fit and healthy. We have a resilient multicultural society with a high level of security in our relationships. I am far more frightened by the vindictive condemnation and desire for harsh punishment by the goverment and the right wing press than by the looting. I feel sorry for the kids caught up in the mindless excitement of the crowd and paying a heavy price because the goverment wishes to crush those involved rather than have to consider its responsibility for what may be going wrong. I fear we have a goverment with no clue how the other half live and which does not seem to give one!

08-18-2011, 10:16 AM	#94 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	Haven't looked to see if this has been shared, but: A bit much, no? Essex police charge man over water fight planned on BlackBerry Messenger \| Media \| The Guardian

08-19-2011, 12:27 PM	#96 (permalink)
Ben Butler Music Addict Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Rudheath Posts: 393	Seriously, five months for handling a pair of stolen shorts and stealing a bottle of water! It states in today's Guardian that convicted rioters are getting 25 % longer prison sentences than they normally would at a magistrates court. Also, 70 % of rioters are imprisoned, 2 % is the usual figure for a magistrates court. They would usually get community service or a fine, the sentences are disproportianate to their crimes. Our prisons are already far too overcrowded, why make the situation worse? Sending them to prison isn't the answer to everything! Why not get them on Schemes such as the operation in Boston, America where gangs are given help to find jobs and education, providing they abide by the law. Oh,and I suppose the riots aren't linked with poverty when the statistics suggest they are. 66 % of rioters are from areas in decline, 41 % are from the top ten most deprived areas in the country in terms of child poverty, educational attainment and employment prospects. The Tories really do need to wake up and adress a) the root causes of the issues and b) to actually adress them rather than come up with some tosh saying they can help 120,000 of our most troubled families! It is a good read by the way in the ever reliable Guardian newspaper, even if it is very much left wing.