Children killed in Connecticut school shooting (likely 27 dead,including 18 children)

Unknown Soldier · 12-26-2012, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Good grief, I feel like we're speaking two different languages here.

I never said I don't think crimes are economically motivated, I said I'm not sure if most are or not. Things like theft presumably are of course, but I don't really see what that has to with a conversation about homicide and gun control. So the real question becomes: Is murder an economically motivated crime? My answer to that is I don't know. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Sometimes economic status plays a role in an indirect way, but that's different from being the motivation for the crime.

Now as far as immigration goes, you can keep claiming that immigrants are more likely to commit crime but the data is on my side here. According to this article, for example, natural-born US citizens are five times more likely to end up in prison than immigrants.

The article is as you say initially, but on closer focus it actually tells a different story. Firstly, a percentage of the so called American citizens are actually going to be the children of immigrants, who possibly due to their less than brilliant social environment are going to be the perpetrators of crime (the article actually mentions this) so I didn't need to read between the lines here. Secondly, the article is referring to those immigrants that have moved to the USA through legal channels hence they are going to be law-abidding citizens (again the article states this) these factors can more or less be applied to most countries that take in large numbers of immigrants.

I was actually referring to those immigrants that have bypassed the checks and jumped the queue, these are the suspect immigrants who are just as capable of committing crimes as locals, which is why in a lot of countries background checks are actually much higher than they were.

I could talk to you about gun laws which focuses more on the thread in question, but the whole concept of guns in society is completely alien to us in the UK.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 12-26-2012, 12:19 PM

Why the **** are we talking about immigrants? Are we forgetting that most of these crazy massacres have been committed by privileged WHITE MEN??? Does that really gall you hhbh? I bet it bloody does.

Unknown Soldier · 12-26-2012, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermione

Why the **** are we talking about immigrants? Are we forgetting that most of these crazy massacres have been committed by privileged WHITE MEN??? Does that really gall you hhbh? I bet it bloody does.

These threads always go off in opposite directions and you're right we should be talking about the actual massacre. So I'll restrict my comments if any, to the actual subject at hand.

**Janszoon** · 12-26-2012, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

The article is as you say initially, but on closer focus it actually tells a different story. Firstly, a percentage of the so called American citizens are actually going to be the children of immigrants, who possibly due to their less than brilliant social environment are going to be the perpetrators of crime (the article actually mentions this) so I didn't need to read between the lines here.

The vast majority of the population of the United States (read: mainstream America) is comprised of the descendants of immigrants, many of them only a generation or two removed, so your comments here don't really have much significance. You'll note that, far from the way you're painting it, the article states, "that the longer one is exposed to American culture, the more likely you are to participate in violence."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Secondly, the article is referring to those immigrants that have moved to the USA through legal channels hence they are going to be law-abidding citizens (again the article states this) these factors can more or less be applied to most countries that take in large numbers of immigrants.

I was actually referring to those immigrants that have bypassed the checks and jumped the queue, these are the suspect immigrants who are just as capable of committing crimes as locals, which is why in a lot of countries background checks are actually much higher than they were.

Look at the article again. The crime rates data that they cite doesn't distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants. In other words, even when you include illegal immigrants in the mix, the crime rates are still lower than the natural-born population.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

I could talk to you about gun laws which focuses more on the thread in question, but the whole concept of guns in society is completely alien to us in the UK.

Well, you don't have people running across the border there either but you're still talking about immigration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermione

Why the **** are we talking about immigrants?

This is what I'm saying.

Unknown Soldier · 12-26-2012, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

The vast majority of the population of the United States (read: mainstream America) is comprised of the descendants of immigrants, many of them only a generation or two removed, so your comments here don't really have much significance. You'll note that, far from the way you're painting it, the article states, "that the longer one is exposed to American culture, the more likely you are to participate in violence."

Look at the article again. The crime rates data that they cite doesn't distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants. In other words, even when you include illegal immigrants in the mix, the crime rates are still lower than the natural-born population.

Well, you don't have people running across the border there either but you're still talking about immigration.

I said I wouldn't talk about immigrants again on this thread (for a little while at least) so I'll come back a bit later on this one and nail your ass

**Janszoon** · 12-26-2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

I said I wouldn't talk about immigrants again on this thread (for a little while at least) so I'll come back a bit later on this one and nail your ass

Okay, you may have to wait until the facts change though. That may take quite a while.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 12-26-2012, 12:37 PM

I just love how people will derail it from the fact that it's middle class (or upper class?) white dudes doing the killing. Can people not get over that? And the fact that they have to explain away OMG how could they do thizzz~~~~

It needs to fucking stop. The media attaches all these positive identifiers to people like Adam Lanza and James Holmes (so talented, super genius, phd candidate) but when POC get fucking MURDERED, they have all these negative adjectives attached to them. What the fuck?

**Janszoon** · 12-26-2012, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermione

I just love how people will derail it from the fact that it's middle class (or upper class?) white dudes doing the killing. Can people not get over that? And the fact that they have to explain away OMG how could they do thizzz~~~~

It needs to fucking stop. The media attaches all these positive identifiers to people like Adam Lanza and James Holmes (so talented, super genius, phd candidate) but when POC get fucking MURDERED, they have all these negative adjectives attached to them. What the fuck?

I think the really crazy thing is that it takes something like Sandy Hook to get people taking about gun control and violent crime, even though these kinds of mass shootings are not at all representative of most violent crime in this country.

Paedantic Basterd · 12-26-2012, 01:36 PM

I bet HHBH is just killing himself laughing at what a totally irrelevant comment has done to the conversation.

TheBig3 · 12-26-2012, 02:24 PM

How come when I make that point, no one says ****?

12-26-2012, 02:24 PM	#400 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	How come when I make that point, no one says ****? __________________ I've moved to a new address

12-26-2012, 12:19 PM	#392 (permalink)
~~Sansa Stark~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Eyrie, Vale of Arryn, Westeros Posts: 3,234	Why the **** are we talking about immigrants? Are we forgetting that most of these crazy massacres have been committed by privileged WHITE MEN??? Does that really gall you hhbh? I bet it bloody does.

12-26-2012, 12:37 PM	#397 (permalink)
~~Sansa Stark~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Eyrie, Vale of Arryn, Westeros Posts: 3,234	I just love how people will derail it from the fact that it's middle class (or upper class?) white dudes doing the killing. Can people not get over that? And the fact that they have to explain away OMG how could they do thizzz~~~~ It needs to fucking stop. The media attaches all these positive identifiers to people like Adam Lanza and James Holmes (so talented, super genius, phd candidate) but when POC get fucking MURDERED, they have all these negative adjectives attached to them. What the fuck?

12-26-2012, 01:36 PM	#399 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	I bet HHBH is just killing himself laughing at what a totally irrelevant comment has done to the conversation.