The French Massacre - Do We Stand Up For Free Speech?

The Batlord · 01-12-2015, 03:08 AM

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Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

****, i will be straight up and say i think you're guilty of shifting the blame away from the murderers by going on about how you think the magazine should have been smarter and should have either shut up or armed themselves etc. basically what it boils down to, to me, is certain extremists have made it clear that if you attack islam with words and drawings they will attack you back with bullets and bombs. by saying we should be smart and not 'poke the bear' or that if we do we should have some sort of bear-proof vest on when poking it, you're basically caving in and giving them exactly what they want. you're making their violence useful and in that way you're actually encouraging them to continue to be violent. the only appropriate response to me when **** like this goes down is to stand your ground. any response other than a middle finger to bearded thugs world wide is honestly cowardice and treason to me.

Unknown Soldier · 01-12-2015, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

****, i will be straight up and say i think you're guilty of shifting the blame away from the murderers by going on about how you think the magazine should have been smarter and should have either shut up or armed themselves etc. basically what it boils down to, to me, is certain extremists have made it clear that if you attack islam with words and drawings they will attack you back with bullets and bombs.

Standing up against an aggressor that threatens your day to day lifestyle and the environment in which you live in I agree with, but attacking an overseas demon that doesn't infringe on those rights, by the way of cartoon drawings that you know will hurt them just as much as bullets borders on the realms of stupidity, especially when you know that the demon will probably execute you for those drawings. The magazine should have heeded the warning and done cartoon cracks at jews and Christians, two mobs that won't kill you for it.

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by saying we should be smart and not 'poke the bear' or that if we do we should have some sort of bear-proof vest on when poking it, you're basically caving in and giving them exactly what they want.

Again if they're saying that you shouldn't eat pork and 'you should do fasting' in your own home/country whether you like it or not then I agree and that's worth fighting for, but is doing some drawings really worth it and that is the question here?

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you're making their violence useful and in that way you're actually encouraging them to continue to be violent.

They have enough reasons to be violent already, so antagonizing them further really isn't necessary especially when innocents end up dying.

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the only appropriate response to me when **** like this goes down is to stand your ground. any response other than a middle finger to bearded thugs world wide is honestly cowardice and treason to me.

You sound like a warmongering radical, luckily you're not in government.

The Batlord · 01-12-2015, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Standing up against an aggressor that threatens your day to day lifestyle and the environment in which you live in I agree with, but attacking an overseas demon that doesn't infringe on those rights, by the way of cartoon drawings that you know will hurt them just as much as bullets borders on the realms of stupidity, especially when you know that the demon will probably execute you for those drawings. The magazine should have heeded the warning and done cartoon cracks at jews and Christians, two mobs that won't kill you for it.

Again if they're saying that you shouldn't eat pork and 'you should do fasting' in your own home/country whether you like it or not then I agree and that's worth fighting for, but is doing some drawings really worth it and that is the question here?

They have enough reasons to be violent already, so antagonizing them further really isn't necessary especially when innocents end up dying.

You sound like a warmongering radical, luckily you're not in government.

The fact that this "mob" will kill us for it, is exactly why they need to be called out for their psycho bull****. Don't antagonize them? **** that. Point out their nutbag sect's irrational nonsense for what it is in front of the entire world, cause if they're willing to kill someone over a cartoon, then their belief system needs to be scrutinized. Whatever form of Islam they practice isn't worth respecting or placating.

Oriphiel · 01-12-2015, 06:05 AM

Have you guys ever stopped to consider than none of you are "wrong"? It's important to show caution when dealing with violent maniacs, and while the deaths of these journalists was a horrible and tragic event, it isn't unreasonable to believe that they could have taken more steps to protect themselves. But at the same time, people will always feel obligated to stand up against those who terrorize others, so it was inevitable that someone would call the terrorists out for their actions.

At the same time, there was really no way for these journalists to have prevented the bloodshed afterwards. Terrorists are infamous for killing random civilians to send a message, and if they found that the journalists were protected round-the-clock by cops, they would have just blown up a bus of civilians who had nothing to do with the event and sent a press release afterwards.

Basically, it's a horrible set of circumstances with no easy answer.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 01-12-2015, 06:17 AM

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Originally Posted by Oriphiel

Have you guys ever stopped to consider than none of you are "wrong"?

no, lol.

stop being a such a fence sitter tbh

Oriphiel · 01-12-2015, 06:20 AM

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Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

no, lol.

stop being a such a fence sitter tbh

I'm sitting on a fence, and yet you're the one with something up your ass. Way to completely miss the point.

Now stop being such a hateful extremist and learn to learn to play with others, or I swear I'll turn this car around and drive us all right back home.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 01-12-2015, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Standing up against an aggressor that threatens your day to day lifestyle and the environment in which you live in I agree with, but attacking an overseas demon that doesn't infringe on those rights, by the way of cartoon drawings that you know will hurt them just as much as bullets borders on the realms of stupidity, especially when you know that the demon will probably execute you for those drawings. The magazine should have heeded the warning and done cartoon cracks at jews and Christians, two mobs that won't kill you for it.

er... they were a french magazine and they were attacked by french muslims. how exactly is that attacking an overseas demon? you're being disingenuous for the sake of appeasement imo.

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Again if they're saying that you shouldn't eat pork and 'you should do fasting' in your own home/country whether you like it or not then I agree and that's worth fighting for, but is doing some drawings really worth it and that is the question here?

having the freedom to do the cartoons is absolutely worth it. i don't like being bossed around by bearded primitives, personally. just a matter of preference i guess.

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They have enough reasons to be violent already, so antagonizing them further really isn't necessary especially when innocents end up dying.

backing down isn't necessary nor helpful either. try watching some of these people talk some time. if anything they are boosted up by your cowardice because they take it as a victory.

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You sound like a warmongering radical, luckily you're not in government.

you sound like you don't mind living under sharia. you should be deported to iraq.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 01-12-2015, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

I'm sitting on a fence, and yet you're the one with something up your ass. Way to completely miss the point.

Now stop being such a hateful extremist and learn to learn to play with others, or I swear I'll turn this car around and drive us all right back home.

i didn't miss your point, your point was that two diametrically opposed views are both right. your point is both boring and silly to me.

Oriphiel · 01-12-2015, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

i didn't miss your point, your point was that two diametrically opposed views are both right. your point is both boring and silly to me.

You know what's silly? Saying that anyone who disagrees with your sentiments should be deported, which you just said to Unknown Soldier. How can you say things like that with a straight face?

Anyway, if you read my post again, you'll see that both parties in this argument have grains of the truth to their sentiments. You are right in saying that people will inevitably stand up against terrorists, and that we have the right to combat them. But Unknown Soldier is correct in saying that things could have been handled in a better fashion. And yet the truth is that no matter how things turned out, or who criticized the terrorists and over what, things would have almost certainly turned out poorly, because the state of affairs is so chaotic right now. Now stop being such a combative and uncompromising child, or we'll have to elect you as a politician.

Here is my original post, which I still stand by:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

Have you guys ever stopped to consider than none of you are "wrong"? It's important to show caution when dealing with violent maniacs, and while the deaths of these journalists was a horrible and tragic event, it isn't unreasonable to believe that they could have taken more steps to protect themselves. But at the same time, people will always feel obligated to stand up against those who terrorize others, so it was inevitable that someone would call the terrorists out for their actions.

At the same time, there was really no way for these journalists to have prevented the bloodshed afterwards. Terrorists are infamous for killing random civilians to send a message, and if they found that the journalists were protected round-the-clock by cops, they would have just blown up a bus of civilians who had nothing to do with the event and sent a press release afterwards.

Basically, it's a horrible set of circumstances with no easy answer.

Before I go, I have one more thing to say. If you choose to respond to this with some petty insult that only shows that you never actually read my post, like "lol you're a fence-sitter" or "this is just silly", then you shouldn't expect any meaningful dialogue between us to take place. That's like randomly setting a fire in your house, and then complaining when it starts burning all of your stuff up.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 01-12-2015, 06:39 AM

i don't say it with a straight face. you people just take me too serious. i think i'm right yea but i just throw in a bit of hyperbole for fun.

anyway, my main point was that the other side was wrong. so when you say stop and consider that you're both not wrong it really is nonsensical to me. i'm not being combative for the sake of it i'm just telling you honestly what i think. when you disagreed with me before on the freedom of speech thing i heard you out cause you were making some sense. if you say stuff that doesn't make sense then i don't pretend it does. that's just the way i am. you can call it combative if you like, i call it being honest.

01-12-2015, 06:05 AM	#214 (permalink)
Oriphiel Ask me how! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: The States Posts: 5,355	Have you guys ever stopped to consider than none of you are "wrong"? It's important to show caution when dealing with violent maniacs, and while the deaths of these journalists was a horrible and tragic event, it isn't unreasonable to believe that they could have taken more steps to protect themselves. But at the same time, people will always feel obligated to stand up against those who terrorize others, so it was inevitable that someone would call the terrorists out for their actions. At the same time, there was really no way for these journalists to have prevented the bloodshed afterwards. Terrorists are infamous for killing random civilians to send a message, and if they found that the journalists were protected round-the-clock by cops, they would have just blown up a bus of civilians who had nothing to do with the event and sent a press release afterwards. Basically, it's a horrible set of circumstances with no easy answer.

01-12-2015, 06:39 AM	#220 (permalink)
~~John Wilkes Booth~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2,235	i don't say it with a straight face. you people just take me too serious. i think i'm right yea but i just throw in a bit of hyperbole for fun. anyway, my main point was that the other side was wrong. so when you say stop and consider that you're both not wrong it really is nonsensical to me. i'm not being combative for the sake of it i'm just telling you honestly what i think. when you disagreed with me before on the freedom of speech thing i heard you out cause you were making some sense. if you say stuff that doesn't make sense then i don't pretend it does. that's just the way i am. you can call it combative if you like, i call it being honest.