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D-D-D-D-D-DROP THE BASS!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,730
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Here's the thing about pro-life:
Let's step back for a moment. (Pretend I'm a woman for a bit if it makes this post more appealing)
Whatever your intentions, and in fact, regardless of whether you're right or not - Being Pro life is based on your beliefs. If you believe time is a perceptual nonentity existing at a single point that we experience in an abstract manner as something that allows consecutive events to occur when in reality all events and possible events occur concurrently, that will affect, presumably, your opinion of abortion compared to a Radical Cleric or an Atheist or a Pagan or a follower of the Norse Pantheon or the Pope or Almighty Buddha, all of whom also have their beliefs which inform their opinion of the subject.
In fact, if I die and it turns out heaven is real and I'm in front of the pearly gates and St Peter says to me "Yup, abortion is totally bad dude, sorry we weren't more clear but we've got some competition in the book market spreading FUD about god's instructions for humanity, sorry", then cool, got told by a direct representative of god that abortion is bad, damn, shame I made that mistake! Won't happen again sir I promise.
Now leaving aside whether *any* of those worldviews are or are not correct - That is to say, leaving the possibility open that I as an atheist am wrong, and abortion is the worst possible sin and I will go straight to hell for ever considering it. Or that abortions feed the dark lord's lust for power and contribute to the eventual death of the universe under his mighty talons, crushing underfoot that which bore him to bear upon the world, PRAISE CTHULHU, CTHULHU F'TAGHN! SHUB NIGGURATH COMES FOR US ALL!
Even considering those possibilities - There is absolutely no evidence of any kind available to us as human beings that allows us to be able to make that decision on someone elses behalf. I cannot point to an event, as evidence, that I can prove happened, and say "This is why abortion is always bad".
If I were christian, then as a good Christian, I would see fit to counsel on the Christian concept of the beginning of life being conception, and abortion therefore being an innocent death based on that definition.
However not everyone is a Christian, or a Sikh or a Muslim or a Pagan or <insert anti-abortion group here up to and including atheism or agnosticism of certain varieties>.
And that means that when not preaching to my congregation, my authority ends. I have no say on how they are to think of god, abortion, or even what the best sandwich filling is.
So when you then say "No, my authority extends beyond the bounds of my established practical authority as a Priest or an Imam or a Caliphate or a Spirit Medium or a Dogmatic atheist" (And lets be clear here - that is voluntary authority and anyone should be free to leave that authority at any time, much the same way scientists can be authorities in their field but are still fully free to leave that authority behind if they believe something else is more compelling. Any rigid enforcement of that authority is an abuse of assumed power)
That's not religious and secular freedom. That's zealotry. That's forcing your beliefs on others.
Humankind does not agree on the concept of god, or morality, or atheism. We simply don't. And that's a much bigger debate than abortion itself, but ultimately, we consider people who attempt to force others into believing in their god over another god, gods, or lack of gods, to be radical extremists whose actions reflect poorly on others within their religion.
Daesh want us to believe in their god. The Crusades were about believing in god. Militant atheists like Richard Dawkins take similarly awful approaches with regards to belief in no god. Modern day Christianity is largely based on appropriated paganism, where the Roman Empire systematically replaced one religion with the other for the sake of empire-wide monotheism and a lessening of internal religious stresses.
And in every single one of those cases, it is, to be blunt, an unreasonable and abhorrent decision, to try and force others into your belief system against their wills.
So given that all abortion debate ultimately comes down to an argument about when a foetus becomes a living entity - Which is an inherently religious or philosophical debate about the exact definition of the birth of life...
That means that people should be free to make those decisions based on the philosophy or religion they have accepted into their lives as their guidepost, be that guidepost Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour, be it Allah, Imhotep, The Force, etc.
And then everyone should cool off and have a much bigger argument later about whether a specific god or set of gods exists or not.
But until that argument is settled, this one is fundamentally off limits because it's core concept is one for which the only available, solid evidence is that different people think different things and the health risks are the health risks and people are QUITE DAMN WELL ENTITLED TO TAKE THEIR OWN DAMN RISKS WITH THEIR BODIES OR THEIR IMMORTAL FUCKING SOULS, A-FUCKINGMEN!
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian
As for me, my inbox is as of yet testicle-free, and hopefully remains that way. Don't the rest of you get any ideas.
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Originally Posted by Trollheart
I'll have you know, my ancestors were Kings of Wicklow! We're as Irish as losing a three-nil lead in a must-win fixture!
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Last edited by GuitarBizarre; 12-31-2015 at 03:17 PM.
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