Let's Talk About Gary Johnson

**Goofle** · 09-25-2016, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody

That's fine. I'm not opposed to classical liberalism (Hayek, Friedman) on ideological grounds, but rather because it's making people in North America poorer, in comparison to the post war period of say the 1950's to the mid 1980's, where wages were high and the cost of living was low.

If someone could sit me down and convince me that free trade, the decline of unions, (and yes!) the acceleration of the free movement of labour were beneficial to the wages of the working class I would be for it.

Not exactly a term that applies to economic policies, but classical liberalism is obviously swell.

I have watched quite a few Stefan Molyneux videos and he's quite good at presenting a case either against Communism/Socialism or pro Capitalism/Anarcho-Capitalism. But the problem with Anarcho-Capitalism is that it hasn't actually been implemented anywhere before (that I know of) so it's hard to say it would work. Whereas Communism, Socialism and, to a lesser extent, capitalism have all failed repeatedly.

The Batlord · 09-25-2016, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

it might seem like a pointless statement but if you actually think about it. There is a solution to fix that.

No there is not. There isn't a way to make politicians not *******s, and we get to elect them, so why do you think unelected CEOs are going to be more responsive than people with some actual accountability? And unfortunately it's just the nature of business, the basic principle with which it is run: make more money, lose less money.

djchameleon · 09-25-2016, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

No there is not. There isn't a way to make politicians not *******s, and we get to elect them, so why do you think unelected CEOs are going to be more responsive than people with some actual accountability? And unfortunately it's just the nature of business, the basic principle with which it is run: make more money, lose less money.

The way that you force them is through legistlation, that's why the whole Fight for 15 is an important movement.

The downside of fight for 15 is two fold. There are two things that will end and have already been happening. The places that have approved 15 dollars an hour won't really enact it until 2022 some time when inflation will have made everything more expensive and 15 dollars an hour will look like shit. So they are giving small raises each year til they get to that point.

The second thing that will happen in the fast food arena is that they will replace human workers with kiosks and people will just order their foods from the machine while they only have a few workers in the back.

Isbjørn · 09-25-2016, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofle

Quit, you're making me horny.

Spoiler for <3:

Understandable. Castro and Marx give me the tickles too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

No there is not. There isn't a way to make politicians not *******s, and we get to elect them, so why do you think unelected CEOs are going to be more responsive than people with some actual accountability? And unfortunately it's just the nature of business, the basic principle with which it is run: make more money, lose less money.

Spot on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

it might seem like a pointless statement but if you actually think about it. There is a solution to fix that.

Socialism?

The Batlord · 09-25-2016, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

The way that you force them is through legistlation, that's why the whole Fight for 15 is an important movement.

The downside of fight for 15 is two fold. There are two things that will end and have already been happening. The places that have approved 15 dollars an hour won't really enact it until 2022 some time when inflation will have made everything more expensive and 15 dollars an hour will look like shit. So they are giving small raises each year til they get to that point.

The second thing that will happen in the fast food arena is that they will replace human workers with kiosks and people will just order their foods from the machine while they only have a few workers in the back.

lol. I work in fastfood in a state with a 7.25 minimum wage, and my company already makes sure to never give us enough hours to qualify for Obamacare. How much do you think they are going to **** us with twice that minimum wage? Legislation is feel good bull**** most of the time, so please **** off with ****ing with my check. It's already garbage as it is.

What we need are actual jobs that require skilled laborers and are backed by labor unions, cause this service industry economy can not be fixed. It will always provide substandard pay and benefits to a depressingly large section of society without ever giving them any realistic way to get out of this bull****. Concentrating on easy **** like minimum wages laws is a useless band-aid while there are no jobs in-between burger flipper and doctor.

djchameleon · 09-25-2016, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

lol. I work in fastfood in a state with a 7.25 minimum wage, and my company already makes sure to never give us enough hours to qualify for Obamacare. How much do you think they are going to **** us with twice that minimum wage? Legislation is feel good bull**** most of the time, so please **** off with ****ing with my check. It's already garbage as it is.

The cost of living in your state isn't that bad though comparable to NYC. The fight for 15 movements are in places with high cost of living. So you don't have to worry about your checks being ****ed with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

What we need are actual jobs that require skilled laborers and are backed by labor unions, cause this service industry economy can not be fixed. It will always provide substandard pay and benefits to a depressingly large section of society without ever giving them any realistic way to get out of this bull****. Concentrating on easy **** like minimum wages laws is a useless band-aid while there are no jobs in-between burger flipper and doctor.

I agree with this for the most part. We do need more manufacturing type jobs that are union backed to return to the states but that's not going to happen with things like the TPP around. Trump says he is against it for soundbites but he's not really against it. He knows that his rich buddies want to always save a buck whenever possible. Also his own VP pick is for TPP.

The Batlord · 09-25-2016, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

The cost of living in your state isn't that bad though comparable to NYC. The fight for 15 movements are in places with high cost of living. So you don't have to worry about your checks being ****ed with.

I agree with this for the most part. We do need more manufacturing type jobs that are union backed to return to the states but that's not going to happen with things like the TPP around. Trump says he is against it for soundbites but he's not really against it. He knows that his rich buddies want to always save a buck whenever possible. Also his own VP pick is for TPP.

Well with international trade and business the way it is I don't see any realistic chance of bringing back manufacturing to the US, so the service industry will continue to bleed the life out of the lower and even working classes. See this is why I don't vote. I guess I should start getting involved in local politics as they actually do have a say in this ****. But I still suspect that's like fighting Zarbon when Frieza is just waiting to smack you down.

Isbjørn · 09-25-2016, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Well with international trade and business the way it is I don't see any realistic chance of bringing back manufacturing to the US, so the service industry will continue to bleed the life out of the lower and even working classes. See this is why I don't vote. I guess I should start getting involved in local politics as they actually do have a say in this ****. But I still suspect that's like fighting Zarbon when Frieza is just waiting to smack you down.

Voting is symbolic. What really sparks change is protests, strikes, local initiatives and revolutionary organizing.

djchameleon · 09-25-2016, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isbjørn

Voting is symbolic. What really sparks change is protests, strikes, local initiatives and revolutionary organizing.

Voting on the local and state level is more than symbolic but I agree with your other sentence as well. Those are important as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Well with international trade and business the way it is I don't see any realistic chance of bringing back manufacturing to the US, so the service industry will continue to bleed the life out of the lower and even working classes. See this is why I don't vote. I guess I should start getting involved in local politics as they actually do have a say in this ****. But I still suspect that's like fighting Zarbon when Frieza is just waiting to smack you down.

Yeah just find out what issues are being brought up on the local/state level and work with that. Some places are working towards that band-aid that you hate so much. A band-aid is better than leaving a gushing wound to just ooze out.

The Batlord · 09-25-2016, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

Voting on the local and state level is more than symbolic but I agree with your other sentence as well. Those are important as well.

Yeah just find out what issues are being brought up on the local/state level and work with that. Some places are working towards that band-aid that you hate so much. A band-aid is better than leaving a gushing wound to just ooze out.

I'm not against minimum wage laws, but they're addressing a problem that is bigger than just low pay and needs a much bigger and more comprehensive solution. Smaller solutions that miss the point can be just as destructive as doing nothing.