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Old 07-16-2022, 03:23 PM   #10981 (permalink)
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Something else had to be going on though because JFK was both virulently anti-Communist, and he was friends with Joe McCarthy.
Was he Allen Dulles levels of anti-communism? Those were some crazy evil ****s in the CIA and even with the Bay of Pigs already probably a lost they were still gung ho to make it work until Kennedy cancelled the air strikes on Cuba. After that he was super distrustful of the CIA and the military leaders and they may have seen him as a liability.
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Old 07-16-2022, 03:48 PM   #10982 (permalink)
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Does it have to be one or the other? I remember reading the CIA hired east coast mobsters to do the odd assassination (even in a couple of their many failed attempts on Castro). Plus the CIA clearly had very close ties with quite a few mobbed-up tycoons.

Of all the million things that don't make sense about the assassination the one that sticks out to me is Oswald's official biography. Makes zero sense. It reads like a cover story of a fake defector, and if he was a CIA man then, I don't believe he wouldn't have been used by the CIA during the assassination.

The motive? JFK's second term. They were afraid he would shut the CIA down, which he must've at least considered after the Bay of Pigs. Vietnam is another big one. It does seem probable to me that he had a change of heart on that and wanted to pull out after getting reelected.

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Old 07-16-2022, 04:33 PM   #10983 (permalink)
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Is it conspiracy theory to think the mob had him killed?
The most convincing account yet of how - and why - the Mob killed JFK: New film by relative of Mafia boss sheds fresh light on the President's assassination nearly 60 years on
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Old 07-16-2022, 05:08 PM   #10984 (permalink)
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Does it have to be one or the other? I remember reading the CIA hired east coast mobsters to do the odd assassination (even in a couple of their many failed attempts on Castro). Plus the CIA clearly had very close ties with quite a few mobbed-up tycoons.

Of all the million things that don't make sense about the assassination the one that sticks out to me is Oswald's official biography. Makes zero sense. It reads like a cover story of a fake defector, and if he was a CIA man then, I don't believe he wouldn't have been used by the CIA during the assassination.

The motive? JFK's second term. They were afraid he would shut the CIA down, which he must've at least considered after the Bay of Pigs. Vietnam is another big one. It does seem probable to me that he had a change of heart on that and wanted to pull out after getting reelected.
True true. The mob was big in Cuba before the Cuban Revolution and worked with the CIA to get it back. Wasn't there supposed to be a CIA/mob connection with stopping socialism in Italy as well?
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There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 07-16-2022, 07:04 PM   #10985 (permalink)
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Yeah Italy was a priority cause it was the western European country with the strongest communist party, stronger than even the French one.

The CIA (or maybe even the OSS, don't remember) even laundered money through the Vatican Bank to arm whatever mafia clans and Fascist militias they ended up arming.
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Old 07-17-2022, 06:30 AM   #10986 (permalink)
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Does it have to be one or the other? I remember reading the CIA hired east coast mobsters to do the odd assassination (even in a couple of their many failed attempts on Castro). Plus the CIA clearly had very close ties with quite a few mobbed-up tycoons.

Of all the million things that don't make sense about the assassination the one that sticks out to me is Oswald's official biography. Makes zero sense. It reads like a cover story of a fake defector, and if he was a CIA man then, I don't believe he wouldn't have been used by the CIA during the assassination.

The motive? JFK's second term. They were afraid he would shut the CIA down, which he must've at least considered after the Bay of Pigs. Vietnam is another big one. It does seem probable to me that he had a change of heart on that and wanted to pull out after getting reelected.

Not so sure about that one. The biggest hawk in LBJ's administration was Robert McNamara and he was actually a Kennedy guy.
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Old 07-17-2022, 10:19 AM   #10987 (permalink)
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Not so sure about that one. The biggest hawk in LBJ's administration was Robert McNamara and he was actually a Kennedy guy.
McNamara is an interesting case because there's a chapter in his memoirs (from what I was told by a friend with knowledge on the subject, haven't read it myself) that gives credence to the controversial "JFK ultimately wanted out of Vietnam" theory. Granted he's an unreliable witness who shifted his political positions many times but there's also nothing about this bit of information that somehow exculpates him in hindsight or makes him look good in any way (if anything the other way around), which is why it's interesting.

"Which US official in this or that administration said what when" is an area where I'm completely out of my depth. But an interesting thing I learned from reading up on the death gasps of the French colonial empire is that

1) JFK was a well-informed and articulate critic of US bankrolling of the French military in Indochina and Algeria even before his election as president, he believed that the European colonial project lost all legitimacy

2) JFK had warm personal relations with a few Third World leaders like Sukarno and Nkrumah. He took those people seriously and had respect for the national liberation movements in those countries because he assumed they would join the capitalist order if you offer them the right conditions. In other words, he had his reservations about the Domino Theory and didn't view the postcolonial countries as Soviet pawns in the making (which is the only way someone like Dulles regarded them). So in that sense it's about much more than Vietnam, where obviously no one doubted the communist presence.

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Old 07-20-2022, 11:01 PM   #10988 (permalink)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa6bBUY_qe0
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Old 07-21-2022, 09:10 AM   #10989 (permalink)
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Was he Allen Dulles levels of anti-communism? Those were some crazy evil ****s in the CIA and even with the Bay of Pigs already probably a lost they were still gung ho to make it work until Kennedy cancelled the air strikes on Cuba. After that he was super distrustful of the CIA and the military leaders and they may have seen him as a liability.
I know. I'm a catholic ethnically-Irish guy (half at least) from Massachusetts. I've read at least 8 books on Kennedy.

I don't think it was the Communism thing is what I'm saying. Dulles was instrumental along with Kermit Roosevelt in toppling the Iranian Democracy. I think they just thought they could do whatever they wanted.

Iran was the "we can do this in any country we want!"
Cuba was the "no you ****ing can't"

I think they saw Cuba has the woman they couldn't have and took out anyone they thought would get in the way.

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Not so sure about that one. The biggest hawk in LBJ's administration was Robert McNamara and he was actually a Kennedy guy.
That's no indication. IIRC Biden told Obama not to do the SEAL strike on Bin Laden. Presidents do what they want.
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Old 08-03-2022, 10:12 AM   #10990 (permalink)
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Jon Stewart is our best American.

I actually get a feeling of patriotic pride when I read about what he's doing and how hard he fights for people.

He's my hero.
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