Universal Basic Income or Class Warfare

Trollheart · 12-29-2017, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

If socialist systems are so mired in unworkable bureaucracies then how come the world’s militaries are so good at blowing **** up?

Also, I can call 911 and have the police here in under ten minutes.

Five, if they recognise your number...

OccultHawk · 12-29-2017, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Five, if they recognise your number...

Good one

Anteater · 12-29-2017, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

you're actually just repeating standard propaganda about socialized healthcare like in Canada

average wait times are pretty comparable for anything serious with the exception in the US that if you are well off you will wait a shorter amount of time and if you are poor or working class you may not see a doctor until you're in the emergency room

every other metric Canada blows us out of the water in even with having one of the biggest messes of a healthcare system

"Wait times are not a general characteristic of universal health care countries. The Commonwealth Fund’s research consistently shows that Canada has longer wait times than a number of other countries with universal health care. For example, in 2010, 41 percent of Canadian patients waited for two or more months for a specialist appointment compared to only five percent in Switzerland. Further, 25 percent of Canadians waited for four months or more for elective surgery compared to just five percent in the Netherlands. There is also evidence from the OECD showing that some nations with universal access health care systems—Belgium, France, Germany, Japan, Luxembourg, Korea, the Netherlands, and Switzerland—report no problems with wait times."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot.../#7c8203ff78d5

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

It's nice to know that you've evolved to where I was in high school.

Now if only you could evolve to like good pop music we'd be even.

The Batlord · 12-29-2017, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

"Wait times are not a general characteristic of universal health care countries. The Commonwealth Fund’s research consistently shows that Canada has longer wait times than a number of other countries with universal health care. For example, in 2010, 41 percent of Canadian patients waited for two or more months for a specialist appointment compared to only five percent in Switzerland. Further, 25 percent of Canadians waited for four months or more for elective surgery compared to just five percent in the Netherlands. There is also evidence from the OECD showing that some nations with universal access health care systems—Belgium, France, Germany, Japan, Luxembourg, Korea, the Netherlands, and Switzerland—report no problems with wait times."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot.../#7c8203ff78d5

Now if only you could evolve to like good pop music we'd be even.

Assuming we buy that Canada has ****ty wait times you still just contradicted yourself by pointing out quit a few countries with universal healthcare that don't. So you agree that universal healthcare is workable.

DwnWthVwls · 12-29-2017, 07:59 PM

Patiently waiting for the Ant vs Chula trainwreck.

Ol’ Qwerty Bastard · 12-29-2017, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Assuming we buy that Canada has ****ty wait times

we do

i mean not that it should really be enough to change your stance on universal health care or anything, but just... we do.

Anteater · 12-29-2017, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

you just repeated what I said to you back to me with this link basically minus you might wait longer for an MRI

it's also an opinion piece on Forbes

and it annoys the **** outta me when people post these like they mean anything

Your just an opinion piece on MusicBanter though...

And no, you said-

Quote:

average wait times are pretty comparable for anything serious with the exception in the US that if you are well off you will wait a shorter amount of time and if you are poor or working class you may not see a doctor until you're in the emergency room

The info presented in that article directly contradicts what you said about "standard propaganda about socialized healthcare in Canada". You didn't mention any of this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Assuming we buy that Canada has ****ty wait times you still just contradicted yourself by pointing out quit a few countries with universal healthcare that don't. So you agree that universal healthcare is workable.

Did I ever say universal healthcare is unworkable? I don't think its sustainable economically in any long-term sense, but it works at a smaller scale.

**Frownland** · 12-29-2017, 10:26 PM

However long it takes you to die of what you've got I guess.

Anteater · 12-29-2017, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

the "anything serious" is important, that article talks about elective procedures

it's weird to compare wait times for elective procedures between Canada and the US

because yes you will wait longer for an MRI if after you see a doctor they deem it doesn't look serious, care must be rationed, and they do it by need in socialized systems

however in the US you may never get that MRI, because you can't afford it, even if you're insured the copay can be over a thousand dollars

how do you calculate never into the average wait time?

The insurance "can be" over $1,000. Or maybe under your employer it can be less than that. If it means you are seeing a specialist 2 months earlier than someone in Canada, it would be worth it either way. But we're getting into serious "what if" territory now.

I'd be interested in seeing a more universal care model as opposed to the ACA if it became sustainable. But that would only happen if the FDA became a whole lot more efficient than it currently is, pharma companies both here and outside the U.S. lowered their prices and we had less egregious administrative costs in general.

**Frownland** · 12-29-2017, 10:54 PM

*yore

12-29-2017, 10:26 PM	#298 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	However long it takes you to die of what you've got I guess. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

12-29-2017, 10:54 PM	#300 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	yore __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.* d e a f b o x