Universal Basic Income or Class Warfare

**Frownland** · 11-28-2018, 06:11 PM

When did elph become a fiscal hawk?

OccultHawk · 11-28-2018, 06:21 PM

Seriously elph

**** you

You’d complain the beer’s too cold

Anteater · 11-28-2018, 06:25 PM

Yang is very much a numbers guy and wayyyyy more technical than Sanders. Having read a lot of his stuff, I can tell you that he's gone deep into the specifics but if you are concerned how he'll pay for UBI in a broad sense, his website talks about it.

https://www.yang2020.com/blog/ubi_fa...-basic-income/

The Batlord · 11-28-2018, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

just a quick search about Dallas public transit and 42% of households are underserved by it (and it ain't great anyway)

I want my tax dollars to fix THAT

not to checks cut to people making 50k+ a year already anyway

Bruh I don't know what the cost of living is where you live but it would literally as in actually double income for people working 39 hours on minimum wage where I live. That's really big ****. Maybe it wouldn't be so big for people living in New York and Cali but it would be a major lifestyle change for people living in a lot of conservative areas with low minimum wage. Even if it didn't solve poverty it would be a huge step towards changing attitudes towards socialism.

You can change minimum wage all you want but it won't have the same kick in the balls as giving people an extra thousand dollars a month. If you're bummed at it going to middle class people who'll just be happy to buy another car or whatever then that's a small sacrifice but if you're pissed about a very small amount of rich people having a bit of extra pocket change then I think you're missing the forest for the trees.

Seriously if I had a thousand dollars a month coming in I'd be a lot less scared to get an apartment with a roommate and live off PBJ's since I'd know that I wouldn't be in danger of losing my job and being stuck in a now ****ed situation.

The Batlord · 11-28-2018, 07:10 PM

TBH Anteater isn't a total libertarian, he just goes hard for Trump for the trolling. He doesn't have political scruples but he's not morally bound to capitalism in the way that many conservatives are.

Anteater · 11-28-2018, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

Or maybe it makes perfect sense

VAT is a regressive tax that's harsher the less money you have

Don't be dumb. If everyone is making more + has more time because that's 1 or 2K a month they don't have to spend a second on to earn, that's way preferable to increasing my income tax or the usual liberal school of thought on "how are we gonna pay for this ****".

Everything in life is time vs money. The trick is figuring out how to optimize one so that it leads to more of the other.

The Batlord · 11-28-2018, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

this could be accomplished by having the gov mandate you a higher pay

here a federal increase to $15 would more than double the $7.25 minimum

through this method you don't have to pay more of your income in taxes

I could still get fired and get nothing versus getting fired and getting something more than unemployment benefits, and I'm sure many businesses would be scrimping with a raise in the minimum wage. I'd like to think that at a certain point raising wages would mean that businesses simply couldn't cut hours, fire people, and raise prices without both hurting their ability to operate and their customers' willingness to buy their products, resulting in cuts at the top, but I'm dubious that simply raising the minimum wage is going to accomplish this in a truly meaningful way. I imagine that the higher you raise minimum wage the less returns you're going to get on quality of life. Remember that minimum wage is still a bandaid to preserve capitalism and stave off socialism by making the working class complacement. It's had its uses but it's still a half-measure.

The Batlord · 11-28-2018, 07:25 PM

I'd be getting the same amount I'm making now without working a single day, except I wouldn't have to make the maximum amount of hours to do it, so any hours I'd get at work would basically be gravy as far as I'm now concerned at this moment. Tax me more? Fine. I'm still making more money. Look I'm not exaggerating when I say that $1000 a month would literally double my money. If I work 39 hours I literally make JUST UNDER $250 a week after taxes.

OccultHawk · 11-28-2018, 07:29 PM

Quote:

We currently spend between $500 and $600 billion a year on welfare programs, food stamps, disability and the like. This reduces the cost of Universal Basic Income because people already receiving benefits would have a choice but would be ineligible to receive the full $1,000 in addition to current benefits.

Well...

This guy doesn’t have a monopoly on UBI as a concept

Unless you’re talking about cutting military spending by at least 99% you can **** off.

If you just pulled food stamps and disability from people who wanted cold cash instead

We need those safeguards for people who can’t budget at all or are vulnerable to the vampiric criminal sector that keeps an eagle eye out for people to exploit.

Out of all the ****ing ways to pay for it - taking food stamps and disability? ****ing Christ

The Batlord · 11-28-2018, 07:30 PM

Nothing your minimum wage increase does is going to give me $1000 extra a month. My job will find a way to **** me and everyone else.

11-28-2018, 06:11 PM	#421 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	When did elph become a fiscal hawk? __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

11-28-2018, 06:21 PM	#422 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	Seriously elph **** you You’d complain the beer’s too cold __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html