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Old 06-08-2021, 04:47 PM   #2481 (permalink)
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universal healthcare got talked about in the US when...Hillary Clinton endorsed it in the 90s
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Old 06-08-2021, 04:54 PM   #2482 (permalink)
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What is the argument you're making here? That the voters were wrong? It's a ****ing democracy.
Yes I think it was wrong to vote in Reagan.
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Old 06-08-2021, 05:04 PM   #2483 (permalink)
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universal healthcare got talked about in the US when...Hillary Clinton endorsed it in the 90s
I was around then. I don't think it did.
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:15 AM   #2484 (permalink)
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And don't forget United Fruit, the John Birch Society, the Chicago School, Phyllis Schlafly, the Koch brothers, etc. The vast right wing conspiracy is not paranoia and it does skew public opinion in nonsensical ways that don't even exist in other white countries with fascism problems. Also throw in whichever *******s lobbied to make private healthcare only a thing.

But I don't get how you can call Bernie a "never candidate" (or whatever you said, I'm too lazy to go find that post). Sure he was always a long shot but he did more than any politician in decades to actually pull the Overton window back to the left just a bit for ****ing once. He got cheered by a Fox News audience. People are actually talking about universal healthcare for the first time in... for the first time! And he was always the last one to finally lose to the establishment candidate with all the center left media clout.

If this country ever has a leftward turn again he will probably have been a crucial swing point.
I agree with most of this. As for my position on Bernie, it's not that straightforward.

I actually like Bernie. I think he gets "the horse race" better than some of the other idiots he was on stage with. As a side note, Pete Buttigieg remarked that when he watched John Edwards in 2004 hem and haw about his favorite movie, he realized Democrats have no spine. I agree with Pete, and I think Bernie is a rare example of a Democrat not doing that (I'll forever love him for his "Birthday cards are bull****" stance).

But Bernie isn't a never candidate because of Bernie, it's his moron followers that continue to **** things up for anyone who might benefit from his policies. This isn't a halfhearted argument. I'm completely serious when I say if Bernie fans really wanted him to win they should have stuck to the talking points (like Republicans do) and left the Rose Twitter nonsense at home.

As politics goes, I don't think Bernie is ruthless enough. I'd like to live in a Frownland utopia, too. But the reality is if you want things enacted, you need to be a son of a bitch like LBJ was. There's a reason he outdid FDR in 4 years. A part of me hopes Biden has a little of that, not because he's a bastard but because he knows the Senate, and saw first hand the ****ing Obama took on certain things. I'm putting a lot of weight on these Infrustraucture negotiations. If he can't pull this off, I might reconsider my position.

Anyway, I hope that clarifies at least what I'm getting at.

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I was around then. I don't think it did.
It didn't. He doesn't know wtf he's talking about. They've been trying for universal healthcare since Truman, and the Pro-China punkboi thinks Hillary Clinton did it. **** off.
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:48 AM   #2485 (permalink)
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I was pretty young but I still remember the tough on crime and welfare "reform" ****. Must have been the weakest kind of advocacy she didn't stand behind when it wasn't immediately successful. And she certainly didn't stand behind it when she was in office herself.
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Old 06-09-2021, 01:41 PM   #2486 (permalink)
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I was pretty young but I still remember the tough on crime and welfare "reform" ****. Must have been the weakest kind of advocacy she didn't stand behind when it wasn't immediately successful. And she certainly didn't stand behind it when she was in office herself.
Universal Healthcare? No, it tanked her popularity. There were pins in '92 that read "Vote for Hillary's Husband." The Pharmaceutical-Industrial Complex ran her through the mud as some radical feminist, iirc.
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