Will Biden be another one term president?

**Frownland** · 12-13-2021, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubber soul

Or we can start World War III and destroy everyone. I'm sure that will satisfy everybody.

Capitulate to those ending the world or you'll end the world. Gee I wonder who this mindset benefits.

I prefer machetes and bombs to guns fwiw

rubber soul · 12-13-2021, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Capitulate to those ending the world or you'll end the world. Gee I wonder who this mindset benefits.

I prefer machetes and bombs to guns fwiw

No one. That's the point.

I wouldn't bring a machete to a gunfight. Look what happened in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

**Frownland** · 12-13-2021, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubber soul

No one but the fascists. That's the point.

Pretty bad advice for you to give then huh

Gun owners don't worry me. They're cowards.

rubber soul · 12-13-2021, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

What the hell is wrong with you? I'm not talking full-on fasicsm, blood in the streets, abandoning the rule of law, but Biden has gone in the opposite direction. How many who took part in the insurrection attempt have got more than a year in jail? How many have got anything close to a year? You don't have to start ****ing World War III (panicky rhetoric there) to properly punish offenders against the law. It was sedition. It was treason. It was an armed uprising orchestrated by the Right and by neo-Nazi groups. And the solution is just to let them cool their heels for a few weeks/months and then set them free? Everyone? Nobody is going to serve any sort of proper time?

Republicans may respect little, but strength is one thing they do respect. Sure, if the Dems come on strong they'll whine and moan and use it to try to take back the senate and the House, and they'll NEVER respect the other party. But do you think the lion in the jungle got his reputation by pushing over antelopes or whatever the **** gently? Do you think any enemy or opponent takes the other side seriously if they don't do anything serious? You have to take a stand, say "you broke the law and now you're going to pay". That doesn't bring civilisation or democracy crashing down; in fact, NOT doing it is going to contribute more to its fall than putting the boot in.

You're making a case that there's only two options: go soft and maintain some sort of peace or go hard and kick off a war. There's a middle ground where you show your enemies - and let's be clear, these people are the enemies of your democracy - that they can't **** with you, that you're not afraid to deal with them. In not doing so, you lose any credibility, respect, or, dammit , fear you might have had among them. You show you're weak and indecisive, scared of blowback and they will **** you as soon as they get the chance. They won't thank you for being nice to them, they'll just call you a pussy.

Not a lion.

Okay, you're the President of the United States. You want to punish these people without starting all out riots throughout the country. What would you do? BTW, it isn't over yet, they're still prosecuting these idiots.

PS- It isn't actually the Republican Party. Oh, they say it's the Republican Party but the real Republican party was overthrown in 2016 (though admittedly, they did it to themselves by attracting the people that Hillary Clinton once kindly called deplorables). So if we're really serious, the former Republicans, who I may not agree with but still believe in a true democracy, even if they end up in the minority, will join up with the Democrats (and a few have already) and stop the craziness once and for all. Then we can get back to bickering about Social Security and taxes, etc. instead of impeaching someone because he is wearing the wrong tie.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now.

rostasi · 12-13-2021, 03:45 PM

What I don't understand is why you think that the Ruthuglicans will act any different whether these people are given deservedly stiff sentences or not. What, are they gonna start complaining about the treatment of these people? Oh wait, they've already started doing that.

Quote:

"Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene visited accused January 6 rioters in a Washington DC jail on Thursday night.

Greene claimed the conditions were worse than Gitmo, although an inspection on Tuesday said they were sufficient.

Greene claimed the "political prisoners" sing the national anthem every night at 9pm while crying..."

When do you think this crock of shit will just turn into a bowl of poo? Will it be after we coddle these fascists?

Now, we have a local Texas realtor who seems to think that prison is supposed to be her Club Med.

Quote:

"Realtor who took a private jet to the Capitol riot says she plans to practice yoga, detox from alcohol, and lose 30 pounds in prison..."

The Batlord · 12-13-2021, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Capitulate to those ending the world or you'll end the world. Gee I wonder who this mindset benefits.

I prefer machetes and bombs to guns fwiw

Nobody ever remembers that anarchist mad lad who shot President McKinley, Leon "Based" Czolgosz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubber soul

Okay, you're the President of the United States. You want to punish these people without starting all out riots throughout the country. What would you do? BTW, it isn't over yet, they're still prosecuting these idiots.

PS- It isn't actually the Republican Party. Oh, they say it's the Republican Party but the real Republican party was overthrown in 2016 (though admittedly, they did it to themselves by attracting the people that Hillary Clinton once kindly called deplorables). So if we're really serious, the former Republicans, who I may not agree with but still believe in a true democracy, even if they end up in the minority, will join up with the Democrats (and a few have already) and stop the craziness once and for all. Then we can get back to bickering about Social Security and taxes, etc. instead of impeaching someone because he is wearing the wrong tie.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now.

Conservatives have been figuring out minority rule to keep the mob and brown people from influencing anything for a long time. If you think the Republican party abandoned democracy in 2016 I have bad news for you. Any time you hear "This is a republic not a democracy" then just know it's a very old dog whistle.

Lisnaholic · 12-13-2021, 05:11 PM

Even if, as some of you have said, the democracy vs. autocracy struggle has been going on for various election cycles already, events took a historically different turn in November 2020. That was when Trump refused to concede the election, and the Dems should've pushed back harder right from that moment imo. Where was the barrage of taunts about "sore loser" that Gore had to endure? It was a childish, but for that reason, effective tag to put on your opponent.

And now we have the unusual circumstance of two politicians claiming to be POTUS, both claiming executive privilege, etc. I don't completely go along with TH's idea of almost vindictive prison sentences for the foot-soldiers of Jan 6th, but I think there has been a certain gutlessness about law and order responses so far, from the top on down.

There's a lot of talk about how unprecedented conduct, like the threatening of electoral officers, and a disassociation from the truth is becoming normalised, and that's usually coming from the GOP. They blur stark issues by using phrases like "alternate facts" (=lies) and "alternate slates of electors" (=overthowing the voters choice). But even Biden has contributed to the normalising: he made a desk-thumping speech in defense of democracy serveral months back, followed by inertia from the White House and Dems, thus, in effect, crying "wolf"and inducing people to think, "oh,yeah, that old death-of-democracy line again".

But Trump has abandoned democracy by rejecting the peaceful transfer of power. Right now, in America there is a Great Schism, like when the Catholic church had two Popes. The Dems should be acting hard and acting fast imo, instead of behaving as if getting Bannon to appear in court next July is some kind of victory. Time for the real POTUS to please stand up and act like he is.

The Batlord · 12-13-2021, 05:45 PM

Not saying you shouldn't be concerned. I mean the political and economic structures that hold real power in America, not to mention internationally, aren't some boogie man who controls everything, maaaaan *takes bong hit*, and destabilization of the American political system is definitely a very real threat atm.

BUT

If you're worried about democracy then there's deeper issues to concern yourself over than just the current CNN storyline. Like the entrenched bureaucracy of often unelected officials and non-governmental think tanks who facilitate the international capitalist system and the multinational corporations they serve.

Trollheart · 12-14-2021, 05:23 AM

Shoot every one of them. Put them up against the wall.

Nah I'm joking.

No need to damage a perfectly-good wall.

Seriously, you've got to make examples. Violence is, sadly, going to happen no matter what Biden does, so why not at least make sure you send a message before it all kicks off? If nobody was imprisoned at all, RepublicNazis would sneer at the weakness of Dem Bones and just wait for their chance for revenge. If people got stiff, proper sentences and those who refused to co-operate from the Trump camp were immediately arrested, assets seized, remanded etc RepublicNazis would sneer at the weakness of Dem Bones and just wait for their chance for revenge.

So, you know, hung for a sheep and all that. You send nothing more than a message of weakness by being lenient on the people who tried to overthrow American democracy (sic) and set yourself up for ridicule and the loss of the vote of those who thought they could depend on you to punish the wrongdoers. How do you think the other side would have approached this? Did someone say Gitmo?

Don't think America avoids virtual civil war by bowing down and being afraid to do what's right. At the moment, the rioters are standing there with their arms folded and a defiant look on their troglodyte faces saying "Yeah? What are you going to do about it?" Current answer: shrug and not much really. Promise not to do it again? No. What are you going to do about it? Shrug, um, not much...

rubber soul · 12-14-2021, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

Even if, as some of you have said, the democracy vs. autocracy struggle has been going on for various election cycles already, events took a historically different turn in November 2020. That was when Trump refused to concede the election, and the Dems should've pushed back harder right from that moment imo. Where was the barrage of taunts about "sore loser" that Gore had to endure? It was a childish, but for that reason, effective tag to put on your opponent.

True, Gore did have to endure the sore loser tag, but somehow the Republicans looked a little worse given the Brooks Brothers riot, etc. There is some truth about the Dems being a bit overcautious though.

View Poll Results: Will Biden win in 2024?
Yes	5	38.46%
No, he will lose in the general election	1	7.69%
No, he will not be the Democratic candidate	7	53.85%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

12-13-2021, 05:11 PM	#57 (permalink)
Lisnaholic ...here to hear... Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: He lives on Love Street Posts: 4,444	Even if, as some of you have said, the democracy vs. autocracy struggle has been going on for various election cycles already, events took a historically different turn in November 2020. That was when Trump refused to concede the election, and the Dems should've pushed back harder right from that moment imo. Where was the barrage of taunts about "sore loser" that Gore had to endure? It was a childish, but for that reason, effective tag to put on your opponent. And now we have the unusual circumstance of two politicians claiming to be POTUS, both claiming executive privilege, etc. I don't completely go along with TH's idea of almost vindictive prison sentences for the foot-soldiers of Jan 6th, but I think there has been a certain gutlessness about law and order responses so far, from the top on down. There's a lot of talk about how unprecedented conduct, like the threatening of electoral officers, and a disassociation from the truth is becoming normalised, and that's usually coming from the GOP. They blur stark issues by using phrases like "alternate facts" (=lies) and "alternate slates of electors" (=overthowing the voters choice). But even Biden has contributed to the normalising: he made a desk-thumping speech in defense of democracy serveral months back, followed by inertia from the White House and Dems, thus, in effect, crying "wolf"and inducing people to think, "oh,yeah, that old death-of-democracy line again". But Trump has abandoned democracy by rejecting the peaceful transfer of power. Right now, in America there is a Great Schism, like when the Catholic church had two Popes. The Dems should be acting hard and acting fast imo, instead of behaving as if getting Bannon to appear in court next July is some kind of victory. Time for the real POTUS to please stand up and act like he is. __________________ "Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953

12-14-2021, 05:23 AM	#59 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	Shoot every one of them. Put them up against the wall. Nah I'm joking. No need to damage a perfectly-good wall. Seriously, you've got to make examples. Violence is, sadly, going to happen no matter what Biden does, so why not at least make sure you send a message before it all kicks off? If nobody was imprisoned at all, RepublicNazis would sneer at the weakness of Dem Bones and just wait for their chance for revenge. If people got stiff, proper sentences and those who refused to co-operate from the Trump camp were immediately arrested, assets seized, remanded etc RepublicNazis would sneer at the weakness of Dem Bones and just wait for their chance for revenge. So, you know, hung for a sheep and all that. You send nothing more than a message of weakness by being lenient on the people who tried to overthrow American democracy (sic) and set yourself up for ridicule and the loss of the vote of those who thought they could depend on you to punish the wrongdoers. How do you think the other side would have approached this? Did someone say Gitmo? Don't think America avoids virtual civil war by bowing down and being afraid to do what's right. At the moment, the rioters are standing there with their arms folded and a defiant look on their troglodyte faces saying "Yeah? What are you going to do about it?" Current answer: shrug and not much really. Promise not to do it again? No. What are you going to do about it? Shrug, um, not much... __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018