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Old 06-09-2013, 10:42 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I absolutely never put my music on shuffle. I listen to records everyday, always in order, no matter what.
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:09 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I absolutely never put my music on shuffle. I listen to records everyday, always in order, no matter what.
This.

I'm incredibly anal about it, in fact. Sometimes when I download albums, the order of the songs is incorrect. Most of the time I don't notice or I catch it in time to fix it. However, there are few that slipped my notice and when I found out I had been listening to them in the incorrect order, it REALLY bothered me...to the point where I listened to them over and over in the correct order to try to erase the impression I had when it was wrong.

Whole library on shuffle, though...yeah I do that to figure out what I'm in the mood for when I don't really know.
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:53 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Sometimes when I download albums, the order of the songs is incorrect. Most of the time I don't notice or I catch it in time to fix it. However, there are few that slipped my notice and when I found out I had been listening to them in the incorrect order, it REALLY bothered me...
This has happened to me a few times, head-bashing moment when you realize it. Nowadays I always check that tracks are assigned numbers when I'm importing.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:17 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Much of the time they don't, and I'm as much of a shuffle-play enthusiast as anyone, but there are times that it makes all the difference in the album when played end to end. There are obvious examples like Dark Side of the Moon, Camel's Snow Goose, classical pieces, so forth, but the first thing I thought of when I saw the subject line is Nina Hagen's NunSexMonkRock. IMO the album (and by that I mean the vinyl record) has side one and two totally backwards. I feel that the flow of the album is vastly improved when it opens with "Born in XIXAX





...then concludes with "Future Is Now"


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Old 06-10-2013, 02:50 PM   #35 (permalink)
 
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Go for it, Zero ! Live outside the box a little; you may be pleasantly surprised.
So this evening I decided to listen to an album I'm very familiar with, Souvlaki by Slowdive, on shuffle to see if it gave me any surprises. I tried to forget about the original running order the best I could and listen with an open mind. One thing for definite was that the overall experience fell a bit disjointed despite the quality of the individual songs (and what amazing fucking songs they are). It was a bit like putting a jigsaw puzzle of a very interesting painting together. However some pieces don't quite fit together right because they're in the wrong place and the overall picture is slightly distorted. The order in which the songs played didn't seem to flow right on the whole and made the album sound a bit clunky despite some nice transitions.

One thing that did surprise me though is that the second half of the album seems to flow better when 'Altogether' and 'Melon Yellow' are swapped around. The random shuffle ended up giving me 'When The Sun Hits', 'Melon Yellow' and 'Altogether' in sequence. 'When The Sun Hits' flowed nicely into 'Melon Yellow' and seemed to make 'Melon Yellow' sound more downbeat and depressing than normal. Again the transition into 'Altogether' worked nicely and made the song have a bit more life to it. So I guess you could say it did throw up a couple of surprises but I won't be in a rush to listen to it on shuffle any time soon.
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:56 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Nice topic. I like hearing albums in order when I am listening to an album. I do occasionally hit shuffle for my whole collection, which can be entertaining as well as annoying, usually when a song that is part of a grander suite of songs comes up feeling out of place or missing something.

Small digression. I own a few albums that have alternate track listings and in one case (The Kings - Village Green) is even provided in two track listings (mono version has more tracks and different order than stereo version). Has anyone ever experimented with those cases or resequence an album because of these cases?

It's not the same as shuffling, but is a shuffle if you are used to one track list.
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Old 06-10-2013, 05:06 PM   #37 (permalink)
 
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Nice topic. I like hearing albums in order when I am listening to an album. I do occasionally hit shuffle for my whole collection, which can be entertaining as well as annoying, usually when a song that is part of a grander suite of songs comes up feeling out of place or missing something.

Small digression. I own a few albums that have alternate track listings and in one case (The Kings - Village Green) is even provided in two track listings (mono version has more tracks and different order than stereo version). Has anyone ever experimented with those cases or resequence an album because of these cases?

It's not the same as shuffling, but is a shuffle if you are used to one track list.
I once listened to The Psychedelic Sounds of The 13th Floor Elevators going by the band's original track order as opposed to the official track order and I didn't think it sounded as good. I know the band had a concept in mind but the album didn't seem to flow as well as I thought it would.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:39 PM   #38 (permalink)
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It depends.

The song order has to be correct on the albums themselves, but the order I actually listen to the songs in doesn't matter unless it's meant to be listened to in order. Even then, I'll listen to specific songs and skip the rest of the album sometimes.

I don't think I've ever listened to an album on shuffle, just because playing in order is natural to me.
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:07 PM   #39 (permalink)
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So I guess you could say it did throw up a couple of surprises but I won't be in a rush to listen to it on shuffle any time soon.
^ Thanks for sharing the results of your experiment with us, Zer0. I´m glad it wasn´t a total disaster for you!

I´m still surprised at how unpopular "shuffle" is, so I´ve tried to think up a couple of things in its defence:-

Firstly, I often want to hear a bit of music but don´t have the time or inclination to hear a whole album side. So back in the days when vinyl or cassette were the only options, I always heard the opening tracks more often than the subsequent ones. Not only that, but it´s natural to be much more attentive to the first tracks that you hear. These two circumstances combine to give you, over time, a lopsided perception of the music, all weighted to the open bars of the opening track. Isn´t "shuffle" the perfect way to correct that imbalance and give all the songs an equal chance?

Secondly, artists themselves are quite happy to mix and match when they play live. Dylan is notorious for treating his repertoir like a pack of cards, even to the extent of dealing out the same card twice in one night. Pink Floyd, those intimidating AOR perfectionists, often play great slabs of sequenced songs, but a glimpse at the track list of Pulse shows that they also resort to a little cutting and pasting when it suits.

Finally, as Eno indicates, no artist with ten or so tracks to juggle with can possibly check out every track-list combination, and, although I have no evidence to support this, I suspect that some artists either don´t worry, or get over-ruled when it comes to working out their song order.

So come on guys; engraved in vinyl doesn´t have to mean carved in stone!
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:21 PM   #40 (permalink)
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^ Thanks for sharing the results of your experiment with us, Zer0. I´m glad it wasn´t a total disaster for you!

I´m still surprised at how unpopular "shuffle" is, so I´ve tried to think up a couple of things in its defence:-

Firstly, I often want to hear a bit of music but don´t have the time or inclination to hear a whole album side. So back in the days when vinyl or cassette were the only options, I always heard the opening tracks more often than the subsequent ones. Not only that, but it´s natural to be much more attentive to the first tracks that you hear. These two circumstances combine to give you, over time, a lopsided perception of the music, all weighted to the open bars of the opening track. Isn´t "shuffle" the perfect way to correct that imbalance and give all the songs an equal chance?

Secondly, artists themselves are quite happy to mix and match when they play live. Dylan is notorious for treating his repertoir like a pack of cards, even to the extent of dealing out the same card twice in one night. Pink Floyd, those intimidating AOR perfectionists, often play great slabs of sequenced songs, but a glimpse at the track list of Pulse shows that they also resort to a little cutting and pasting when it suits.

Finally, as Eno indicates, no artist with ten or so tracks to juggle with can possibly check out every track-list combination, and, although I have no evidence to support this, I suspect that some artists either don´t worry, or get over-ruled when it comes to working out their song order.

So come on guys; engraved in vinyl doesn´t have to mean carved in stone!
About the track order...

As an artist myself, I don't try every possible track order, but I also don't need to.

Even if I am not working on a concept album, I want the track order to have a good flow and all my projects and albums have central themes and it is the central theme that determines the order.

And album I am working on now is called "From the Seat of Emotions" and lyrically centres on my personal feelings (in an abstract yet concrete way).

The album will open violently with a song about self-hatred, then a song about a horrid ex ("Voracious Lamia". I haven't conceptualised half of the other tracks but I have a really strong one about a complex mix of hatred and depression and an instrumental that is really depressing. So that complex mixed emotion would be between the two ends of the spectrum.

As far as the individual tracks within the general flow, I want to not stick all the stronger ones together and the weaker ones together, I want them mixed in so that the listener is more likely to go through the whole thing. If you lead strong then follow with three weaker tracks, they may just stop and not continue. Sort of putting strong ones in such a way that it holda their interest until the end.

Some bands don't have a problem mixing it up live because they alter the songs slightly so that they don't have to flow together musically, but there also usually is a pause between songs for a bit of talking. On the albun though, that pause and talking isn't there, so I have the intro and outro of all the songs flexible so that when I finalise the order, I can alter the intros aand outros for better musical flow.

So I can't ssay I agree with the live shuffle argument or the not trying every possible track order argument. Then again, that is only the case for me, I can't say what the general case is for most artists.

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