The Official Religious/Political Debate Thread (dance, indie, albums, Radiohead)

[cardboard adolescent]

Atrocities have been commited by both sides for ages, and both sides have been wronged. However, Hezbollah (NOT HIZBOLLA GODDAM IT) is not a "terrorist organization" hellbent on destroying Israel - they are a resistance movement that was first created to try to remove Israeli troops illegally stationed in Southern Lebanon. In the current conflict, they were trying to negotiate the exchange of captured soldiers, which they have done in the past, except now their demands have been met with a full-out attack. I am in no way condoning the actions of Hezbollah, however, they are understandable. When a Israel has captured your friends and family and has been holding some of them since 1978 it is understandable to be desperate to get them back, and striking back to attempt a negotiation is, though not RIGHT, again, understandable. Israel, however, is to blame for escalating this conflict to the proportions where it is now, where hundreds of innocent people are dying on both sides.

I might write out more later but I have to go.

[tdoc210]

To Raine. Where not a democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic. Communism is bad, it would work though in a perfect world, which we don't have.

[Rabid Sea Turtles]

Originally Posted by riseagainstrocks

1. Hizbollah is sheltered by Lebanon. Making them allies.

2. Isreal is doing what they have to to survive. You all seem to think that if they didn't fight anyone, they'd be left alone. The very hour the countries constitution was signed, Egypt and several other Middle Eastern states declared war. Why? Because they are taught to hate Jewish people. As long as Isreal exist, there will be conflict.

3. Terror reign on Lebanon? Hardly. Whenever an innocent man/woman/child dies it is a sad thing, and Isreal should attempt to be more accurate. But you all seem to forget that EVERY DAY there is suicide bombers from these radical extremist who BLOW THEMSELVES UP in crowded streets, cafe's, nightclubs, and other populated areas killing sometimes 1 and sometimes 10's or hundreds of people. Telling Isreal to be pinpoint accurate is SHEER hypocrisy and I'm shocked at many of you.

4. This is not to say that Isreal should fight at the level of these terrorist, but where the hell are your criticism of them? I haven't found one.

5. The U.S. being Isreal's bitch? What? Are you daft? The US has played a very small role in Isreal's politics over the last 5-6 years. Ariel Sharon was very against outside involvement. He saw this struggle as the Jewish people against those that hate them. He didn't come crawling to the US as some of you make it sound.

6. DontRunMeOver, your analogy has me confused. It should be when the man in the red shirt blows up the shopping center killing 20 children and their mothers, Isreal responds by acting on the best information possible killing the man in the red shirts co-conspiritors and the occasional accidental civilian. But of course BBC doesn't report that. You only hear how evil Isreal is oppressing the Palistinians and destroying Mosques.

7. Raine...you're simply and idiot. Read a history book. Or anything for that matter.

Hizbollah are not mindlessly blowing themselves up in crowded Israeli streets, you are confusing them with the Palestinians.
Hizbollah was created for the sole purpose of removing illegally stationed Isreali troops from Lebanon.
They are not a terrorist organization.

Also, I am far from daft. The United States has backed every endeavor Israel goes on. Look at UN voting records.
The US always votes with Israel. Always.

And I wholeheartedly agree with your 7th point.

[Raine]

Originally Posted by the death of capitilism

To Raine. Where not a democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic. Communism is bad, it would work though in a perfect world, which we don't have.

I think communism is a very noble idea but it would never work any world. Or rather I doubt it would work in a perfect world.
I just think that the way another country is run should bare no impact on another.
I'm not on for politics so maybe that why you can't convince me that there was some relevance and importance to the whole domino theory.
However, the fact that a country (no matter its form of government) is building nuclear war heads or any other WMD should be something to fear. But there's no reason to act on those fears until that particular nation attacks another nation.
This whole thing with a war on terrorism and getting countries to stop producing WMDs is a load of crap. I say that because any nation should have the right to build weapons to protect them should they ever see another nation as an imminent threat.
It's the reason people buy alarms for their houses. To protect themselves against unwanted intruders.

[Rabid Sea Turtles]

So we should wait for another country to use their nuclear warheads before we disarm them?
So we should wait for thousands of people to be killed on impact, and thousands more to die from over exposure to radiation before we disarm these countries?
That is ridiculous.

The only thing that I disagree with about disarming nations with nuclear warheads, is the fact that we have nuclear warheads. How hipocritical is that?

[Raine]

Originally Posted by Rabid Sea Turtles

The only thing that I disagree with about disarming nations with nuclear warheads, is the fact that we have nuclear warheads. How hipocritical is that?

so your argument goes out the window.
If you side with the US (a country with nuclear war heads) and think all other countries with nuclear war heads should have them disarmed then what kind of message are you sending?

[Rabid Sea Turtles]

I think that the US should be disarmed as well.
And how exactly was my argument thrown out of the window?

[Raine]

Originally Posted by Rabid Sea Turtles

I think that the US should be disarmed as well.
And how exactly was my argument thrown out of the window?

If you side with the US and agree any country with nuclear warheads shuold have them disarmed but the US has nuclear war heads then all of your talk about peace and living in a safe worl free of the threat of nuclear war heads goes out the window simply because you're being a hypocrite. You can't have it both ways.
Either disarm your nuclear warheads and then continue to whine and moan about other countries with them or don't disarm yours and you're no better than any other country (communist or not) with nuclear war heads.
If you feel the need to be armed with WMDs then why can't say Korea say the claim the same arguement and just drop the "crisis"

[Rabid Sea Turtles]

You're getting very confused I think.
I don't think that any country should have nuclear warheads.

[Raine]

Originally Posted by Rabid Sea Turtles

You're getting very confused I think.
I don't think that any country should have nuclear warheads.

My opinion on this is biased and indecisive for my own complex reasons.
But I whole heartedly believe that any country with the means to build nuclear warheads, should if they so desire.
Look at the world we live in. I'm sorry but peace isn't always the answer and sometimes it takes an ass kicking or (since we're talking about nations at the international level) another world war.
Maybe if enough people die, people'll learn and realize that there must be a better way. And maybe they'll strive to achieve that better way.
Although in the case of North Korea, I think something should be done. Something along the lines of the Peace Corps because of the level of destitution many people have reached. I know they're communist and everything. . . but I've been to South Korea, I've seen the border ebtween the two nation and I've heard the stories. It's not something I would wish upon my worst enemy.
And this is not to say that I think the US or any other nation has the right to whine and moan about another nation's WMDs, because I don't. But I think that given the state of North Korea, anything is possible and all specifically Japan, and the US should be on their best guard.

And again I think of the survival of the fittest. If you're strong you live, if you weak you die. In the case of Bush if he doesn't start walking the walk he'll go down as an ever bigger idiot. Not only is he trying to wage a war on terrorism which is resukting in the death of many Americans and many americans are going to jail for war crimes, but now he's trying to take on a North Korea in a whole seperate issue in an attempt to make it look like he's all for peace and love.
I wager that that when everything is said and done, there weren't be too many americans living in america. and given the statistics in america, this'll probably trigger yet another baby boom and even more food stamps will be criculating. And I imagine there'll be a spike in STD's as well.
And in the meantime while he's working on bettering the world his own nation is falling a part. We're in a debt and he's talking about we need to make the world safer. What is this man smoking? The people of your nation hate you, the cost of living is rising because you keep raising the cost for gas and so many other things.
I could go on forever.