The Official Religious/Political Debate Thread (Europe, American, members, quote)

Barnard17 · 07-27-2006, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juggalo4life88

Israel had to deal with it for so long from Palestine and Lebanon, and any other country that didn't like Israel. Now why is it alright for them to do it to Israel first, but now Israel can't do it now according to you people?

Because whatever has been done to Israel, they've done it back tenfold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fal

... Israel does commit Genocide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_a...n_the_massacre

"... Israel could have prevented the massacre." "... Israeli soldiers fought along the Phalangists and shelled the camp to help them overcome the Palestinian resistance." "... Israeli solders driving bulldozers into inhabited houses inside the camp."

http://www.themaz.net/ss/sabra_shatila.html

"he heard the Israelis calling people out via loudspeakers: “Give up your weapons, you and your family will be spared.” Hamad moved up the slope and saw that the murderers were lining up the people who had come out, and then shooting them."

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

"121 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 754 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000."
"1,084 Israelis and 4,091 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000."
"7,633 Israelis and 30,511 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000."

Israel — Population: 6,276,883
The population of Palestine is:. 3 328 300
United States — Population: 295,734,134

So every Israeli=47 Yanks. Every Palestinian=89 Yanks. In effect, if you're Israeli you've had 50,948 of your compatriots killed. If you're Palestinian that's 364,099 of your compatriots killed.

Not to mention the whole "they started it" thing is slightly bunk considering that Israel was formed due to terrorist pressure from Zionists. And also entirely irrelevant, considering that it's Israel who are in the position of power where they are able to say enough is enough and pull troops from occupied land. Hamas, Al Aqsa, Hezbullah ... they're fighting because Israelis are on the wrong side of the border.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juggalo4life88

How can you say that Lebanon should be left alone when they started it?

So, if mexico got ten soldiers, set them in full combat gear and stuck them in two humvees and started driving them over and around the American border, and American troops took them prisoner considering this is legally an act of war, it would be the Americans starting it? Well, by your standards anyway.

Quote:

It all started on July 12 when Israel troops were ambushed on LEBANON'S SIDE OF THE BORDER with Israel. Hezbollah, which commands the Lebanese south, immediately seized on their crossing. They arrested two Israeli soldiers, killed eight Israelis and wounded over 20 in attacks inside Israeli territory. [AsiaTimes.com]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juggalo4life88

Hezbollah is part of them and they are held responsible for that. Just like if our citizens go out and kill in another nation, the nation will blame us, not the terrorist cell.

Get real. Sinn Fein are a political party in Northern Ireland, and they hold seats. They are known supporters of the IRA. When the IRA attacks the UK, we don't use that as an excuse to flatten an Irish town, we deal with the terrorists that committed the acts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juggalo4life88

Lebanon never said that they were seperated from Hezbollah.

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/Ne...A?OpenDocument

"The Lebanese Cabinet ... is dominated by anti-Syrian politicians, many of whom are critical of the group [Hizbullah]. On Wednesday, the government said it had no prior knowledge of the Hizbullah operation, did not condone it and bore no responsibility for it." "Lebanon's government has tried to distance itself from Hizbullah"

Yes, such a strong love affair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juggalo4life88

And to think, you are the same one that thinks we evolved from apes.

Maybe you should touch up on your theory of evolution. We as much evolved from apes as Gorillas evolved from monkeys. But then, far be it for you to make misinformed statements and attempt to take some form of moral highground off the back of them.

tdoc210 · 07-27-2006, 09:12 PM

Ethan why are you quoting my post, do you, or do you not agree with it?

Reznorslave · 07-27-2006, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabid Sea Turtles

Yeah, because when you want to raise your approval ratings you continue to do more of what got them so low in the first place

He started the Iraq war to improve his approval ratings and it worked at first. Then allegations that there were no weapons of mass destruction came out and everyone thought it would be another "in and out" campaign like Desert Storm. And maybe the next time we really should go to war and Bush may not because of fear that another war will hurt his approval ratings. HMMMM!!!

tdoc210 · 07-27-2006, 09:33 PM

^ There should never be war, and we should never enter a war....

Civil disobedience.

~~Rabid Sea Turtles~~ · 07-27-2006, 09:35 PM

Quote:

And maybe the next time we really should go to war

There is never a need for war.
And I doubt that any president cares enough about approval ratings to blatantly disregard a serious situation, in which war would be "necessary".

Reznorslave · 07-27-2006, 09:36 PM

I think war is necessary in certain situations but I agree with you that ultimately approval ratings probably would not play a part in such a large decision!

tdoc210 · 07-27-2006, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reznorslave

I think war is necessary in certain situations but I agree with you that ultimately approval ratings probably would not play a part in such a large decision!

How is war necessary?

Reznorslave · 07-27-2006, 09:42 PM

Maybe I should change the word necessary to justified. Take 9/11 for example. We had to react and I think the only reaction that justified their action was going to war with Afghanistan. You may not feel the same way but I think that was very justified. Now war over some weapons of mass destruction that you never found or some nuclear missiles that may or may not be launced? Absolutely not!

cardboard adolescent · 07-27-2006, 09:47 PM

So, you shouldn't go to war with a country when they threaten you, but you should when they harbor a terrorist organization that threatens you?

tdoc210 · 07-27-2006, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

So, you shouldn't go to war with a country when they threaten you, but you should when they harbor a terrorist organization that threatens you?

No, we shouldn't ever go to war.. *grumbles as he has repeated himslef about 90 times now*

07-27-2006, 09:12 PM	#1772 (permalink)
tdoc210 ashes against the grain Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: new hampsha Posts: 2,617	Ethan why are you quoting my post, do you, or do you not agree with it? __________________ We went back there and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember... I... I... I cried. I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it. I never want to forget. And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought: My God... the genius of that.

07-27-2006, 09:33 PM	#1774 (permalink)
tdoc210 ashes against the grain Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: new hampsha Posts: 2,617	^ There should never be war, and we should never enter a war.... Civil disobedience. __________________ We went back there and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember... I... I... I cried. I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it. I never want to forget. And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought: My God... the genius of that.

07-27-2006, 09:36 PM	#1776 (permalink)
Reznorslave The Perfect Drug Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: A Warm Place Posts: 287	I think war is necessary in certain situations but I agree with you that ultimately approval ratings probably would not play a part in such a large decision! __________________ I still recall the taste of your tears Echoing your voice just like the ringing in my ears My favorite dreams of you still wash ashore Scraping through my head till I don't want to sleep Anymore

07-27-2006, 09:42 PM	#1778 (permalink)
Reznorslave The Perfect Drug Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: A Warm Place Posts: 287	Maybe I should change the word necessary to justified. Take 9/11 for example. We had to react and I think the only reaction that justified their action was going to war with Afghanistan. You may not feel the same way but I think that was very justified. Now war over some weapons of mass destruction that you never found or some nuclear missiles that may or may not be launced? Absolutely not! __________________ I still recall the taste of your tears Echoing your voice just like the ringing in my ears My favorite dreams of you still wash ashore Scraping through my head till I don't want to sleep Anymore

07-27-2006, 09:47 PM	#1779 (permalink)
cardboard adolescent ;) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Posts: 3,503	So, you shouldn't go to war with a country when they threaten you, but you should when they harbor a terrorist organization that threatens you?