The Rest in Peace Thread (RIP)

[jwb]

Originally Posted by elphenor

"thoughtcrimes"

like open homophobia in your lyrics

it blew way past problematic, he's a ****head bigot who used his platform in a harmful way

doesn't mean anyone should feel bad for cranking that track based exclusively on the homophobia

uh he also rapped about making deals with the devil, ****ing corpses and killing people. But you're right... The fact that he said he "shows no love to homo thugs" is what we need to obsess over now that he's dead.

**** outta here with your phony outrage ***gots

RIP DMX

[jwb]

Umm no I don't get why it's not in the same category lol

You just assume that people are being gay bashed based on DMX lyrics as opposed to maybe people fighting dogs cause DMX made that aesthetic cool too.... It's pure conjecture.

It's not like hating homosexuality was some big theme I'm his songs.. like many other rappers he made a few passing remarks usually aimed at emasculating his rap rivals rather than speaking on homosexuality as such... But because it doesn't fit the politics of today let's make that the hallmark of his legacy as opposed to any number of the other deranged things he's said I'm his songs. Dude probably had serious mental illness if you listen to his lyrics closely but nah let's not show any compassion for that now that he's dead... Let's fixate on the homo thugs line cause that's what is important for progress in our society

You can't point to actual harm you are just seizing on his death to have a dated conversation on the problematic nature of lyrics that were penned 20 years ago.. Cause you have nothing better to do.

A week ago when he was alive nobody was analyzing this crack addicts lyrics but now that he's dead we mustn't miss the opportunity to take him to task.... To what end exactly?

[adidasss]

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

I'm very ignorant when it comes to hiphop, but:
- taking the bad with the good does not mean you're excusing or ignoring the bad. It just means that a lot of great art (especially of the past) happens to have bigotry issues, but that it would be a pity not to recognise and enjoy it in spite of that. You can condemn the bigoted aspect at the same time, and it's also important to distinguish between bigotry being adjacent or central to the art. The same thing applies to many old novels for instance and I bet that adi has enjoyed reading some of those in spite of their issues just like I have. I feel like people tend to be more critical of these issues in genres of art they don't like much.
- complaining that hiphop gets special treatment in writing off bigotry issues is just plain nonsense. Trollheart pointed to metal, and there are countless other white subcultures (many sports for instance) where the same applies. In fact, I feel like hiphop may even get criticised more harshly than other subcultures for its depiction of women and sexuality, from racist motives

Yeah, see, I have to apologize for harping on about this issue in this way, but I think it's helpful to try and make a comparison with racism and see how there is a double standard at play. Try to imagine a white rapper having a song where one of the verses speaks about how black people are bad and they should all go back to Africa or something (set to a really dope beat of course). I think that that one "little" verse would be a whole lot more difficult to ignore by anyone than an anti-gay verse is. Still. And how many people would be coming here and saying, yeah sure, he's racist and that verse is terrible and hateful but his music is still dope etc? I mean, apart from racists of course.

And yeah there are racist musicians in all sorts of genres, but I can't think of one that enjoys or enjoyed massive popularity and topped the charts with overtly racist lyrics in the past 70+ years (unlike the DMX song which topped charts less than 20 years ago and still isn't really considered problematic).

Btw, I honestly can't think of anything I read that was overtly hateful towards anything that I actually enjoyed (although I have read and enjoyed books by authors who went on to write some hateful things, like Celine for example).

I think Charles hits the nail on the head there, and of course I understand partly the reasons why Afro-American culture is more conservative and why there is this insistence on hypermasculinity by people who have been oppressed and abused for centuries. But I come to the problem from an outsider's and rather neutral perspective. And maybe naively think that everyone should be held to the same standards.

[jwb]

Originally Posted by elphenor

it's totally fair for(particularly) a gay man to point out that the homophobia was ****ed

it wasn't me who cared enough about DMX (lol) to chime in about it

what's over the top is your reaction

the gay man probably never heard a single DMX song he just saw he died and scanned for any homophobic lyrics cause we mustn't miss any opportunity to make the tragedy about me

Maybe my reaction is over the top cause I actually really liked DMX and was sad to hear he died and in the rest in peace thread we have to focus on how DMX harmed Adidas with his naughty lyrics. It's obscene and petty.

[Trollheart]

Are you talking about racism or homophobia? Nearly wrote hobophobia! Get all those loser homeless tramps and bums back to where they came from! Comin' over here, takin' our jo... oh. Wait.

It's just, you began by railing at DMX for his homophobia, but now you're talking about racism, so which is it? It's kind of hard to keep up. Both are wrong of course but I do have to agree with jwb that there's a certain type of poor taste in waiting till someone dies and then attacking them over something they wrote two decades ago, and that they're no longer suddenly around to defend against.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by jwb

uh he also rapped about making deals with the devil, ****ing corpses and killing people. But you're right... The fact that he said he "shows no love to homo thugs" is what we need to obsess over now that he's dead.

**** outta here with your phony outrage ***gots

RIP DMX

What the **** kinda dimwit **** is that? Pretty clearly the thing he was actually serious about was being homophobic.

[jwb]

Originally Posted by elphenor

"naughty lyrics"

you mean hate speech

and him dying somehow makes this hate speech pressing news??

Once again let's make it about me guys

He said something mean in a song once so let's dance on his grave

[jwb]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

What the **** kinda dimwit **** is that? Pretty clearly the thing he was actually serious about was being homophobic.

umm he was serious about a lot of the ****ed up **** he said

Dude was not right in the head. He got arrested for impersonating a police officer ffs

[adidasss]

Originally Posted by elphenor

gnr

Holy crap wow. I stand corrected. Although according to this article: https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...-reissue-album

it was condemned on its release and at least their record label got wiser with time.

And dang, reading his explanation of how he used the n-word to describe "somebody that is basically a pain in your life" is hilarious, and also painfully reminiscent of Eminem trying to justify using ***got.

No wonder Nirvana was so disgusted by those guys. Kurt

[Lucem Ferre]

Are people really trying to say hip hop doesn't get criticized?