Can/ which current MC's can become legends?

**Goofle** · 02-26-2015, 06:11 PM

Kanye is already a legend. Kendrick is absolutely going to be considered that. Drake too probably. They are the obvious ones. I'd love to see people like Danny Brown, Chance the Rapper and Big K.R.I.T. reach that status in the mainstream at some point.

~~Soulflower~~ · 02-26-2015, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

I brought up Janet because I think it's ridiculous that you consider her a legend but not Kanye. If you read what I said earlier I said that people would consider them to be great rappers as well as influence them to be creative within the genre. The reason that I brought up some rappers was because I liked them as well. That's why I didn't include Kendrick (did include Kanye but I did like Yeezus). I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you don't listen to any modern hip hop because you have such a hardcore bias against most modern music. I'd then say that you're out of your depth saying that no rap artist since the 80s has ever caused any changes whatsoever in one of the most popular genres in the US and UK because you don't seek any of the new stuff out under the premise that an album that didn't fall from your glorious years of innovation in hip hop.

If you don't think that Aesop Rock, El-P, Kanye West, and Death Grips had any effect at all in the hip hop world that would lead people to consider them legends (because they got touched by these artists or whichever new goalposts you have up right now), then have fun with your head in the sand. You can influence a genre without being 100% innovative, thousands of artists have done it. It's been said that bad artists copy art, good artists steal it. This can still make waves in the world of x genre because that artist took an idea and made it their own. Plus not everybody knows of the entire history of hip hop themselves so they might hear whatever artist and not know the influences within that music. Then the music touches them and THAT song is what causes them to change their style because they like that approach. Elvis, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, and Michael Jackson are all great examples of this. They take an idea and make it their own, so much so that people consider them to be innovative. I bring up MJ because I know how you feel about him and hopefully you can look at this with less of a biased eye.

So if you think there are no legends today either own up to the hypocrisy of throwing around the term too loosely yourself or you can go ahead and stick your fingers in your ears and rant and tell me how wrong I am.

I find it ridiculous you think Janet is not a Legend and Kanye is when she has an album under her belt that broke cultural/racial barriers and Kanye does not.

Although talented, Kanye West is an arrogant overrated *******.

There is no way in hell he deserves 21 grammys.

MJ was an innovator. He innovated something new so that is not a good example....

DwnWthVwls · 02-26-2015, 07:08 PM

-Kanye (already is), Nikki Minaj, Drake, Kendrick, Lil Wayne (mainstream) <- I don't like any of these artists but you have to give them credit for their impact/success.
-Immortal Technique, MF Doom, Aesop (underground)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

There is no way in hell he deserves 21 grammys.

I don't see how your opinion on what he deserves matters. It doesn't change the facts.

**Goofle** · 02-26-2015, 07:10 PM

I think it's important to make a distinction between mainstream and "underground". Sure, Aesop will go down as a legend in some people's minds, but he's never going to reach Nas/Outkast or even Mos Def type status overall.

**Frownland** · 02-26-2015, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

I find it ridiculous you think Janet is not a Legend and Kanye is when she has an album under her belt that broke cultural/racial barriers and Kanye does not.

Although talented, Kanye West is an arrogant overrated *******.

There is no way in hell he deserves 21 grammys.

I agree with all that on Kanye. You don't have to like someone nor do they have to be incredibly innovative to be considered legends. I'm honored that you were nice enough to pull a straw man argument on me though.

Quote:

MJ was an innovator. He innovated something new so that is not a good example....

MJ made his music based off of standards that were already very common in Pop music. By your standards (sans the bias of course) Michael Jackson is not innovative, a statement that I somewhat agree with. You should try to look at the situation without the fan girl or hater glasses distorting your opinion.

**Frownland** · 02-26-2015, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofle

I think it's important to make a distinction between mainstream and "underground". Sure, Aesop will go down as a legend in some people's minds, but he's never going to reach Nas/Outkast or even Mos Def type status overall.

That's pretty much what I was referring to when I was talking about popularity in underground circles.

**Goofle** · 02-26-2015, 07:21 PM

Unless DWV edited his post I apologise for not seeing him say "(underground)" after his second list.

Black Francis · 02-26-2015, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

-Kanye (already is), Nikki Minaj, Drake, Kendrick, Lil Wayne (mainstream) <- I don't like any of these artists but you have to give them credit for their impact/success.
-Immortal Technique, MF Doom, Aesop (underground)

Lil wayne i could concede becoming a legend. ive even heard some ppl credit him for the term 'Bling' though idk if it's true if that was his creation.

Kanye for me started on the right path of becoming a legend but got too arrogant along the way and now doesn't the deserve the Legend status. Not just cause of his attitude but because imo the quality of his music has also dropped.

~~Soulflower~~ · 02-26-2015, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

You seriously don't think that it's possible for there to be different levels of how innovative someone is? It's just one set standard? Yes what you describe is innovative, but so is what JWB describes. I have a question, how many hip hop/rap artists have you listened to that are from 2000 or later? Where are you coming from with your claims that none of them have ever done anything innovative in any shape or form?

And what artists do you consider innovative (can be within any genre)? Let's look at those with the same lens that you hold for modern music and prove how nothing can be innovative ever unless it came from Soulflower's designated time frame.

Innovation is creating a completely different idea that was not there to begin with. I think you are confusing being artistic and creative with being innovative and boo it is not the same.

I am specifically insisting there is not innovation in the mainstream. I obviously can not speak for every single underground unknown rapper.

Teddy Riley- invented New Jack Swing in the mid 80's

Fats Dominos- Rock

James Brown- Funk

Sly and the Family Stone- Innovated Psychedelic music and was the First to fuse this with (funk and soul)

WAR-Same as above but they were the first to incorporate Latin, Reggae and international music in their funk, rock, r&b, soul fusion

Jimi Hendrix- electric guitar playing style

~~Soulflower~~ · 02-26-2015, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

I agree with all that on Kanye. You don't have to like someone nor do they have to be incredibly innovative to be considered legends. I'm honored that you were nice enough to pull a straw man argument on me though.

He has not innovated anything to the rap genre, how is this a straw man argument?

The fact that he is an ******* also makes my argument a strawman?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

MJ made his music based off of standards that were already very common in Pop music. By your standards (sans the bias of course) Michael Jackson is not innovative, a statement that I somewhat agree with. You should try to look at the situation without the fan girl or hater glasses distorting your opinion.

This is not accurate. What he did with music videos was not being done before his time. He made music videos into an art form.

He is an innovator and any non MJ fan walking down the street will say the same thing.

His concerts and performance were innovative as well and were not done before his time.

These things might not relate to music directly but they are associated with music and were new ideas so its fair to call him an innovator.

Also, while I am not a big fan, The Beatles were innovative as well the only one out of that bunch that is a fraud is Elvis Presley. He has not innovated anything.