Punk and Metal political differences

Guybrush · 08-12-2022, 01:21 AM

I don't know, we have some anarchists here that somehow came into possession of a chunk of land and they're trying to sell plots to set up a kind of anarchist commune. Noone's in charge, of course.

The guys behind it are druggies who kinda burned out in the 90s or early 2000s, scarred brains infected with conspiracy thought and other drivel.

If left completely alone in their anarchist realm without the larger society's protection, they would perish, so they are dependent on it.

**Frownland** · 08-12-2022, 01:27 AM

Ja, anarchists living under a state still rely on the powers monopolized by the state, much like anyone else required to abide by that structure. The misnomer is framing reliance on the state as a core element of anarchism.

Guybrush · 08-12-2022, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

The misnomer is framing reliance on the state as a core element of anarchism.

Oh right. I didn't get that from her post.

More just that these guys tend to end up relying on the state more so than other people who play along with the system more.

Carpe Mortem · 08-12-2022, 05:38 AM

I think we all agree that OP does in fact make a good point, and musical interests can certainly coincidence with political tendencies. Why exactly, though, is what needs to be drilled into. I think subgenres matter here. For example - fans of black metal I've known tend to be left leaning more so than fans of NWOBHM. Why is that?

My own primary disinterest in politics or exact definitions therein aside

I'll admit I don't know much and never cared much about the political subgenres. Maybe it would be needed for this conversation. But that's what you're all here for.

Guybrush · 08-12-2022, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carpe Mortem

[..] My own primary disinterest in politics or exact definitions therein aside

[..]

I don't care much for politics myself because there's so many idiots and tediousness involved.

We have a lot of different parties here, so when there are elections, I just go through the usual survey where I am asked how I feel about political issues. That survey tells me which party has the largest coverage of my political interests, so I don't have to go through the bother of finding out myself. Then I just vote for that party.

Party affiliations / loyalty undermines democracy anyways, so this works well for me. I end up somewhere on the left in this spectrum which, by american standards, probably means I'm more or less a communist.

I occasionally and intentionally listen to both punk and metal, but not as much as I listen to jazz.

Texas Boy · 08-12-2022, 06:31 AM

In general punk is way more political than metal when it comes to lyrical themes.
Metal attacks religion (Christianity) much more than punk, while punk attacks
government/political system much more than metal.

TheBig3 · 08-12-2022, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carpe Mortem

fans of black metal I've known tend to be left leaning more so than fans of NWOBHM. Why is that?

From the 70s/80s? Probably because they're older?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Boy

In general punk is way more political than metal when it comes to lyrical themes.
Metal attacks religion (Christianity) much more than punk, while punk attacks
government/political system much more than metal.

I don't think that's true. Take this stanza from Dragonforce

The chants inscribed on the ancient walls
[the tickertape of the Wall Street crawlers]
The screams of the past echo in the halls
[The 2008 financial meltdown]
Now the wizards arise from their watchtower in the sky
[The G7]

Metal is very political, I just think it's more subtle. When power metal talks about slaying the dragon, I think that's a metaphor for the consumer price index being too high.

SGR · 08-12-2022, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

When power metal talks about slaying the dragon, I think that's a metaphor for the consumer price index being too high.

Carpe Mortem · 08-12-2022, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush

I don't care much for politics myself because there's so many idiots and tediousness involved.

We have a lot of different parties here, so when there are elections, I just go through the usual survey where I am asked how I feel about political issues. That survey tells me which party has the largest coverage of my political interests, so I don't have to go through the bother of finding out myself. Then I just vote for that party.

Party affiliations / loyalty undermines democracy anyways, so this works well for me. I end up somewhere on the left in this spectrum which, by american standards, probably means I'm more or less a communist.

I occasionally and intentionally listen to both punk and metal, but not as much as I listen to jazz.

Lol this is basically what I do re: the surveys. I tend towards freedom, but more aggressively in finances. That labels me a conservative usually.

**Frownland** · 08-12-2022, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush

I don't care much for politics myself because there's so many idiots and tediousness involved.

We have a lot of different parties here, so when there are elections, I just go through the usual survey where I am asked how I feel about political issues. That survey tells me which party has the largest coverage of my political interests, so I don't have to go through the bother of finding out myself. Then I just vote for that party.

Party affiliations / loyalty undermines democracy anyways, so this works well for me. I end up somewhere on the left in this spectrum which, by american standards, probably means I'm more or less a communist.

I occasionally and intentionally listen to both punk and metal, but not as much as I listen to jazz.

In the u.s. a lot of these surveys are distributed by the parties themselves where the results are rigged to show them as the beat representative no matter the answers. Do you account for that or do yall have some cool survey distribution system out there where it's not an issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

I don't think that's true. Take this stanza from Dragonforce

The chants inscribed on the ancient walls
[the tickertape of the Wall Street crawlers]
The screams of the past echo in the halls
[The 2008 financial meltdown]
Now the wizards arise from their watchtower in the sky
[The G7]

Metal is very political, I just think it's more subtle. When power metal talks about slaying the dragon, I think that's a metaphor for the consumer price index being too high.

It's probably based on the Ho Chi Minh quote ("when the prison doors are opened, the real dragon will fly out"), they're clearly advocating for capital punishment.

08-12-2022, 01:21 AM	#11 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	I don't know, we have some anarchists here that somehow came into possession of a chunk of land and they're trying to sell plots to set up a kind of anarchist commune. Noone's in charge, of course. The guys behind it are druggies who kinda burned out in the 90s or early 2000s, scarred brains infected with conspiracy thought and other drivel. If left completely alone in their anarchist realm without the larger society's protection, they would perish, so they are dependent on it. __________________ Something Completely Different

08-12-2022, 01:27 AM	#12 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	Ja, anarchists living under a state still rely on the powers monopolized by the state, much like anyone else required to abide by that structure. The misnomer is framing reliance on the state as a core element of anarchism. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

08-12-2022, 05:38 AM	#14 (permalink)
Carpe Mortem Crusher of tiny Nords Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Ugly Bag of Mostly Water Posts: 1,363	I think we all agree that OP does in fact make a good point, and musical interests can certainly coincidence with political tendencies. Why exactly, though, is what needs to be drilled into. I think subgenres matter here. For example - fans of black metal I've known tend to be left leaning more so than fans of NWOBHM. Why is that? My own primary disinterest in politics or exact definitions therein aside I'll admit I don't know much and never cared much about the political subgenres. Maybe it would be needed for this conversation. But that's what you're all here for. __________________ [SIG][/SIG] Mirth is King Be Loving & Open With My Emotions

08-12-2022, 06:31 AM	#16 (permalink)
Texas Boy Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 186	In general punk is way more political than metal when it comes to lyrical themes. Metal attacks religion (Christianity) much more than punk, while punk attacks government/political system much more than metal.