Newbie Alert!!!I'm a Novice Looking for Advice on Song-Writing

Dirty Dan · 08-03-2012, 05:42 PM

Hi everybody.
I'd like to perhaps become a singer/songwriter some day.Problem is,to do that you have to write songs!
The writing itself isn't a problem,because I write in my spare time anyway.However,I'm not entirely sure just how song-writing works.For example,do you have to set up the song in an organized way,or can you just do it willy-nilly?
If you have to divide the song into sections,what are those sections?
If any of you guys have any advice for me about the subject,or if you can point me toward a good book or website about song-writing,I'd greatly appreciate it.
Sorry for my stupid questions,but I guess I'm more used to listening to music than writing it.

Thanks for reading.

officialrayzor · 08-08-2012, 05:36 PM

Hey Dirty Dan! I'm a lot newer than you, but I see that you need help.

Well, for me personally, I try to hear whatever I try to sing over, whether it is a fully mastered instrumental, or a simple acoustic beat. I continue to do that until I feel that I'm ready to write, and then I write whatever I feel matches the beat.

Now of course, many beginners will come to the problem asking "What if I can't do that" then fine. Write first, and then find a beat and practice singing with it. If it's good, then continue on and record it! If not, try to find new beats to see how you'd like to present your song.

With song-writing in general, just keep writing. In time, you will see that you have strengths and weaknesses, and you have to strive to become a well rounded writer! Now I'm also personally a hobbyist and love writing on the side, so I know where you're coming from. Just write, no matter how it's presented it comes from you, original and from your heart (if properly written :P)

These are just some tips I have, hopefully it helps!

bandclash · 08-09-2012, 06:02 PM

The approach I've always taken to writing music is to write whatever I feel like. If I think it sounds good then it makes a song to me. I don't see much point in constraining myself to "rules" that music follows. There are so many bands that break the rules and do well while doing so.

Dirty Dan · 08-13-2012, 05:46 AM

Thanks a lot to both of you for the replies.Your answers really helped a lot,and I think that now I might be ready to plunge into it.
If I ever get a good song written I'll be sure to share it with you.

PianoLuva4Ever · 08-13-2012, 11:16 AM

What I do, is I start with the chorus and work my way around it. I hear a melody in my head. Sometimes, I am inspired by words I see everyday. Here, I work around these phrases.

Here's an example: I was at church one day, looking for a random prayer request to take home and pray for that person. I picked up one that said "Never gonna give you up. Never gonna let you down". Something went off in my head and before you knew it, I had this:

Take my life and let it be
All for you and for your praise
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down!
I know

This road is full of trials but
When I fall, I will get back up, 'cause I'm
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down!

The phrases in bold were my starters. As you can see, I worked myself around these phrases. Now, the verses and bridge are a bit tricky. But, have the chorus done before you start these sections. The prelude to the chorus is optional, but quite a few composers are known to use it.

The verses are the hardest to write. The mistake that most newbies make, is that sometimes, the verses have nothing to do with the chorus. A song is a story in some way, the chorus is the main meat of the story. So be sure your verses relate to the chorus

The bridge, as its name implies, ties the song back to the chorus. Sometimes, composers actually end with the bridge, to make a "cliffhanger" feeling. But for now, tie the bridge back to the chorus. When making the melody to the bridge, make sure that the last note of the bridge is the V of the I, or the fifth chord. The fifth chord resolves to the one chord, which is at the begining of the chorus.

So in summary

1. Start with the chorus
2. Work around the chorus
3. Make sure the verses relate to the chorus
4. Make sure the bridge ties back to the chorus

Well, that's basically it for songwriting. Happy writing!

If you have any questions, send me a personal message.

**Janszoon** · 08-13-2012, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PianoLuva4Ever

Here's an example: I was at church one day, looking for a random prayer request to take home and pray for that person. I picked up one that said "Never gonna give you up. Never gonna let you down". Something went off in my head and before you knew it, I had this:

Take my life and let it be
All for you and for your praise
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down!
I know

This road is full of trials but
When I fall, I will get back up, 'cause I'm
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down!

Is this some new form of rickroll?

Mojo · 08-13-2012, 11:55 AM

It's not a new form of rickroll. You can trust me on that, cause I'm never gonna tell a lie and hurt you.

**Janszoon** · 08-13-2012, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojopinuk

It's not a new form of rickroll. You can trust me on that, cause I'm never gonna tell a lie and hurt you.

Dirty Dan · 08-14-2012, 07:05 PM

LOL,if you're gonna be Rickrolling me I don't know if I want to stay here.

Even if that was a Rickroll,your post was very helpful PianoLuva,and the advice is duly appreciated.Thanks a lot.

~~[MERIT]~~ · 08-14-2012, 07:55 PM

The best advice may sound cliche, but write what you know. If you're dishonest or fake, the listener will smell it out in a second.

Just try out different styles and formats and see what works best with the skills that you're bringing to the table. Try laying it all out in a skeleton of ideas, then fill in the blanks. Try just writing it all of the top of the head. Usually your polished style will fall somewhere in between

08-03-2012, 05:42 PM	#1 (permalink)
Dirty Dan Groupie Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: United States of America Posts: 20	Newbie Alert!!!I'm a Novice Looking for Advice on Song-Writing Hi everybody. I'd like to perhaps become a singer/songwriter some day.Problem is,to do that you have to write songs! The writing itself isn't a problem,because I write in my spare time anyway.However,I'm not entirely sure just how song-writing works.For example,do you have to set up the song in an organized way,or can you just do it willy-nilly? If you have to divide the song into sections,what are those sections? If any of you guys have any advice for me about the subject,or if you can point me toward a good book or website about song-writing,I'd greatly appreciate it. Sorry for my stupid questions,but I guess I'm more used to listening to music than writing it. Thanks for reading.

08-09-2012, 06:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
bandclash Groupie Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 3	The approach I've always taken to writing music is to write whatever I feel like. If I think it sounds good then it makes a song to me. I don't see much point in constraining myself to "rules" that music follows. There are so many bands that break the rules and do well while doing so. __________________ [link removed by mod, no advertising please]

08-13-2012, 11:55 AM	#7 (permalink)
Mojo Melancholia Eternally Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: England Posts: 5,018	It's not a new form of rickroll. You can trust me on that, cause I'm never gonna tell a lie and hurt you. __________________ Last.FM \| Echoes and Dust

08-08-2012, 05:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
officialrayzor Groupie Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 3	Hey Dirty Dan! I'm a lot newer than you, but I see that you need help. Well, for me personally, I try to hear whatever I try to sing over, whether it is a fully mastered instrumental, or a simple acoustic beat. I continue to do that until I feel that I'm ready to write, and then I write whatever I feel matches the beat. Now of course, many beginners will come to the problem asking "What if I can't do that" then fine. Write first, and then find a beat and practice singing with it. If it's good, then continue on and record it! If not, try to find new beats to see how you'd like to present your song. With song-writing in general, just keep writing. In time, you will see that you have strengths and weaknesses, and you have to strive to become a well rounded writer! Now I'm also personally a hobbyist and love writing on the side, so I know where you're coming from. Just write, no matter how it's presented it comes from you, original and from your heart (if properly written :P) These are just some tips I have, hopefully it helps!

08-13-2012, 05:46 AM	#4 (permalink)
Dirty Dan Groupie Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: United States of America Posts: 20	Thanks a lot to both of you for the replies.Your answers really helped a lot,and I think that now I might be ready to plunge into it. If I ever get a good song written I'll be sure to share it with you.

08-13-2012, 11:16 AM	#5 (permalink)
PianoLuva4Ever Groupie Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 18	What I do, is I start with the chorus and work my way around it. I hear a melody in my head. Sometimes, I am inspired by words I see everyday. Here, I work around these phrases. Here's an example: I was at church one day, looking for a random prayer request to take home and pray for that person. I picked up one that said "Never gonna give you up. Never gonna let you down". Something went off in my head and before you knew it, I had this: Take my life and let it be All for you and for your praise Never gonna give you up Never gonna let you down! I know This road is full of trials but When I fall, I will get back up, 'cause I'm Never gonna give you up Never gonna let you down! The phrases in bold were my starters. As you can see, I worked myself around these phrases. Now, the verses and bridge are a bit tricky. But, have the chorus done before you start these sections. The prelude to the chorus is optional, but quite a few composers are known to use it. The verses are the hardest to write. The mistake that most newbies make, is that sometimes, the verses have nothing to do with the chorus. A song is a story in some way, the chorus is the main meat of the story. So be sure your verses relate to the chorus The bridge, as its name implies, ties the song back to the chorus. Sometimes, composers actually end with the bridge, to make a "cliffhanger" feeling. But for now, tie the bridge back to the chorus. When making the melody to the bridge, make sure that the last note of the bridge is the V of the I, or the fifth chord. The fifth chord resolves to the one chord, which is at the begining of the chorus. So in summary 1. Start with the chorus 2. Work around the chorus 3. Make sure the verses relate to the chorus 4. Make sure the bridge ties back to the chorus Well, that's basically it for songwriting. Happy writing! If you have any questions, send me a personal message.

08-14-2012, 07:05 PM	#9 (permalink)
Dirty Dan Groupie Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: United States of America Posts: 20	LOL,if you're gonna be Rickrolling me I don't know if I want to stay here. Even if that was a Rickroll,your post was very helpful PianoLuva,and the advice is duly appreciated.Thanks a lot.

08-14-2012, 07:55 PM	#10 (permalink)
~~[MERIT]~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 4,814	The best advice may sound cliche, but write what you know. If you're dishonest or fake, the listener will smell it out in a second. Just try out different styles and formats and see what works best with the skills that you're bringing to the table. Try laying it all out in a skeleton of ideas, then fill in the blanks. Try just writing it all of the top of the head. Usually your polished style will fall somewhere in between