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Originally Posted by crukster
That's the thing though, a majority of people go to Church or their respective place of worship and listen to the Sermons for the guidance aspect. They want someone who apparently knows what to do, to tell them what to do. That's a very dangerous thing though, all it takes is one selfish agenda and you've got a room full of wide-eyed believers following a Terrorist.
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Agreed. One reason I am interested in seeing what sorts of religious rules or laws or philosophies people follow, and why, is that sometimes beliefs encourage followers to hurt others. I wish no belief system encouraged this.
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Originally Posted by crukster
[Unitarian Universalism] sounds quite a bit like Sufism, the Islamic counterpart. I was raised Sunni but the Sufi aspect of Islam is something that's always been very interesting to me, something I'm going to study further
Sufism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia |
Crukster, reading your link makes me think Sufism and Unitarian Universalism are quite different since Unitarian Universalism supports seven basic (ethical) principles (
UUA: Our Unitarian Universalist Principles), without telling people what their spiritual path should be (or even if they should have one).
Sufism, in contrast, appears to require a spiritual teacher and the following of a particular spiritual path aimed at purifying the soul. One could, however, follow Sufism *and* Unitarian Universalism, because they don't appear to be mutually exclusive.
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Originally Posted by crukster
I assumed Unitarian Universalism would tackle the idea of God and Existence also, admitedly I don't know anything about "UU" other than what VEGANGELICA wrote there. If it doesn't, then it's nothing like Sufism, I'll retract my claim.
Also, I thought atheists were only called atheists because they "fell into no other category"? Surely if you follow UU, you'd be a called a Unitarian Universalist.
If you're an atheist Unitarian Universalist then that just proves me earlier point where I was sayign atheism is a group with it's own agendas. Thus it contradicts itself and the name is innacurate and misleading.
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I think many people (but not all) who identify as Unitarian Universalist *do* think a lot about existence and the meaning of life (and whether it has one), as well as other theological questions.
Here's a joke about Unitarian Universalists that demonstrates what I mean:
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A Unitarian Universalist dies, and on the way to the afterlife encounters a fork in the road with two options: "to heaven" and "to a discussion of heaven." Without pausing, the UU heads right to the discussion of heaven.
UNITARIAN UNIVERSALISM
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I think that would make a lot of UU people laugh because they'd relate!
At least, it made me chuckle when I first heard it.
I don't view being an atheist and a Unitarian Universalist as contradictory since one can believe in *any* religion and also be a Unitarian Universalist. For example, there are Jewish people who are also Unitarian Universalist (
Jewish Voices in Unitarian-Universalism, the project, the book, the on-line community).
The reason this is possible is that UU makes no statements about gods, neither whether or not they exist, nor what their nature might be. Spiritual beliefs are left up to individual members to decide (or not decide) for themselves, such as views about gods and whether or not there is any ultimate purpose in existence or for the self. UU often looks at and appreciates aspects of religious teachings from a variety of religious traditions, but does not subscribe to them.
This may help explain Unitarian Universalism better:
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Unitarian Universalism
While our congregations uphold shared principles, individual Unitarian Universalists may discern their own beliefs about theological issues. As there is no official Unitarian Universalist creed, Unitarian Universalists are free to search for truth on many paths.
We welcome people who identify with and draw inspiration from Atheism and Agnosticism, Buddhism, Christianity, Humanism, Judaism, Paganism, and other religious or philosophical traditions.
UUA: Theological Perspectives
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and
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Major concerns of the UU religion include social justice and service to humanity. Most UUs readily adapt their beliefs to the findings of science. Thus they were very active in the abolition of slavery, gaining of equal rights for women, and the attainment of equal rights, including the right to marry, for homosexuals and bisexuals.
UNITARIAN UNIVERSALISM
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Originally Posted by crukster
But when people start giving a name to an idea based on nothing, essentially worhsipping the idea of a lack of worship, well I cant stomach that. Still though I can say, it's up to them, they can do what they want.
When those groups start intefering with the rest of the World, that's not something I'm happy about though, thats a step too far and tbh I've not really decided if and what I should do about that, I'm not exactly in a position of power.
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I can't speak for all atheists, but I don't worship any person or idea, Crukster, although I admire and appreciate many. I love the concept of democracy, for example, but I also don't want the majority to dominate the minority by treading on privileges I feel should be rights.
Your statement about not liking when atheists interfere with the rest of the world probably comes from the same root feeling that makes people say they don't like it when religions interfere with the rest of the world. So, I think you share a feeling in common with many people, such as Janszoon, who discuss the experience atheists sometimes have in a predominantly religious society.
I think most people want to be able to practice their religion or lack thereof in peace. When a person doesn't let you do that, feeling angry in response is only natural. I know *I* want autonomy. So, I feel it is wrong when a secular regime (such as China's) forbids the practice of certain religions. And I feel it is wrong when a religious regime forbids the practice of certain religions and non-religions.
This brings us back to the issue you mentioned earlier: sometimes the way people observe their particular belief systems involves interfering in the lives of other people who don't want interference, such as people who want to marry the adult whom they love, or teachers who want to teach science in science classrooms rather than religious beliefs attempting to mascarade as science, or people who don't want to die at the hands of terrorists.
When one person's observance of her beliefs (whether they are religious or not) interferes with another person's autonomy, then we have conflict.
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Originally Posted by GeddyBass2112
Major problem I've comes across is that questioning any sort of religious principles or teaching seems to get far more resistance than most.
I saw this in my old church. There was a vociferous but fairly small group of people in my church who held some very 'traditional' ideas about the Bible and Christian thought, many of whom were Creationists too. They seemed to wield a lot of power in the church and so I often felt that too much emphasis of my church's teachings was about appeasing this group of people. Prime example is discussion of evolution- we tried to hold a series of lectures on the subject of the Bible and evolution, only to have the idea suddenly and quietly get panned, likely on the say-so of this group of people.
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I'd be troubled, too, by anyone squelching a discussion of evolution, since I feel that learning about how life procreates and has changed over time is a wonderful way to understand and appreciate life more.