The mention of things like Battles as being more avant-garde than John Cage? I would argue that Battles is straight noise-rock, and to my estimation sound a ****load like say, Lightning Bolt, at times.
They use traditional instrumentation, traditional compositional method, and traditional release format. In fact, hearing they use prerecorded vocals in their live shows in another thread brings me to believe that with their obsession to duplicate performances as they are written, they are closer to Classical than John Cage. Focusing on studio release of music which is constructed entirely of rock formula, just abstracted a little. I mean, honestly, if it weren't for the need to organise, they're just prog rock than anything.
Yet, if we were that picky, we wouldn't even have an avant-garde forum. So, we just take the label as is, as Dankstra eluded to.
John Cage, however, explored what Avant-Garde is. That is, music that follows a fresh form of rules, and defies/expands/changes the rules before it. He's the epitome of the genre, and if he isn't Avant-garde, then you might as well stop believing in the concept of Avant-garde, and it's existence entirely.
now, onto actual Cage discussion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by loose_lips_sink_ships
Warhol was a dick,
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Warhol was a complete con-artist, from my findings. Cage did not profit like Andy Warhol chose to do, and violently defended(He would just throw **** together, and slap his name on it to profit after awhile, not having an iota of heart for it, and using 'that' as his message). Cage was simply a philosopher that used his exhibitions, and displays as examples for the betterment of music from a communal point of view.
I've seen interviews with cage in his late 50s in his apartment. It's a cramped, crowded place. Not saying he wasn't rich, I wouldn't know either way, but he obviously wasn't one for flamboyance. Just a deep, honest, loving man, really. He may be an extremely well known accomplished figure, but didn't live like it.
Furthermore, he inspired the creation of Krautrock. A genre which is indispensable, and pretty much the sole spawn of all electronic music whether it be dance music, new wave, ambient electronic, industrial, etc. Bowie, and Eno were also massively influenced by Kraut, which means that even the world of Art Rock would take a hit. AMM was largely influenced by Cage, so free inspiration might just be out the door. Cage invented the concept of improv games which John Zorn launched his career off of. Zorn being probably the most important figure in the 90s in avant-jazz, and avant-rock. Creating a massive network that wouldn't be possible without Cage's influence. Both Frank Zappa, and Ruins released their best works, imo(Absolutely Free, and Hydrogroingem collectively) as tributes to the man. There's not a single layer of stream, main or no, in experimental work that wasn't somehow directly, or indirectly influenced by the man.
Cage's unrepenting philosophy basically brought composition into a new era. There is no mistaking that he is crucial to modern music. I'd say even more so than Beethoven, or Bach, and I do mean that seriously. We live in the age of amplification, and the age of technology. Cage gave all musicians a guiderail to explore new ideas. He created liberalism in music, in my eyes. A guide to TRULY combat the preachy, overknowing, aging conservative in music.
Was he that great of a composer? Personally, I'd say no. He wasn't a great composer at all. When it came to producing music, he's decidedly average. But, that's not his calling, it wasn't to seek the personal glory of being the next Franz Liszt, or Elvis Presley for that matter. It was simply to explore the relationship between humans, and sound, so we can explore it on a more spiritual level.
If you ask me, he's a philosophical genius, extraordinary educator, and a visionary who modern music would just not be possible without.