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You're missing out on my point, I think. I don't honestly think Kurt Cobain was that big of a sellout, neither do I hate him. I'm just using dramatic phrasing to illustrate a point. It stems from the fact that I see Ben Butler's criticisms being fairly rock biased, and would easily contend that Cobain is not that much better, or worse, than Gaga.
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Your pretty much saying the exact opposite of your last post, but thats cool,i do that all the time too.
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However, Cobain did put his name on a contract, and did collect millions even though he was trying to 'protest' the rockstar image. Therefore, I don't think he honestly meant it, he was just an unstable mind attempting to cope with becoming his own enemy by putting on a different mask. He even knew he was a hypocrite, that's what caused his suicide.
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He loved david bowie, freddie mercury, john lennon, all famous rockstars. Kurt cobain wasn't the typical punk your making him out to be. He killed himself because he was depressed, the romantic notion that stardom and "selling out" is what made him suicidal is putting it way too simply. He was depressed and suicidal before nirvana, and without any treatment it's no wonder why he stayed like that.
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Your claims are interesting, but make little sense to me. I mean 'fire people he worked with'... what? Like... fire his band? That doesn't honestly make an iota of sense. Maybe Cobain was very easily manipulated, which some have argued about Gaga, however...
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If you want I'll try to dig out this interview later, pretty much MTV threatened to fire people who worked for viacom that Kurt liked if they didn't perform, which is why kurt walked off stage immediatly and kris hit himself in the head with a guitar.
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My basic point is that Gaga, and Cobain sort of empower the same limiting mindset. The same system which disallows listeners to truly come to grips with music. Their flaws are very similar. Gaga is much worse, mind you, but not worse enough to adore one, and revile the other.
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Can you please just rephrase this in some other way, I'm not too clear on what your point is.
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Most importantly, They utilise the visual medium more effectively than the musical medium to acquire an audience.
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Lady gaga can sell her pussy on tv, Kurt Cobain had sex appeal certainly, but not the same way as lady gaga. Lady Gaga does music video's with any other hot celebrity at the time, and are usually full of poorly-choreographed dance routines. Nirvana's video's aren't really gimmicky, and were few and far between, usually just for one single.
I don't think your factoring in the time period enough when comparing these two. Kurt didn't use mediums to promote himself like artists these days, he just wrote a really, really good pop song.
Lady gaga has staff tweeting, facebooking, website making, emailing, live streaming, recording every ****ing thing she does 24/7
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In that same sense, I think Ben Butler, who I don't dislike, is falling for the same trap in which some Gaga fans do. As much as most Gaga fans might be into the 'fashion', I guarantee you a lot of the Cobain followers do it because of the 'image' that the media sold of him after his death than his actual music. I mean, they even sold him as the perfect godlike family man when it was obvious that he was a confused, semi-narcissistic heroin-binging maniac. He painted his house black, and wrote songs mocking rape/torture victims("Polly want a cracker?").
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The media portrayed that plenty, vanity fair ran a whole article and how unfit they were to be parents.
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Nivana's music is more complex than Gagas, but honestly, not by that much. Furthermore, they're both fuelled by a concealing, one sided media which disallows superior musicians with inferior budget to create as powerful of imagery a fair playing field. Willfully, or no, they're both part of the same beast.
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Okay..your point is that the media convinces people artists are all on an even playing field? Because everybody understands the difference between pop music and alternative or underground. Whether or not if nirvana and lady gaga's marketing was the same behind the scenes (which it isnt) it really has nothing to do with the music they are making. Nirvana took a really alternative sound and made it popular for masses, lady gaga is just another pop artist who has a good gimmick.
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There's very good reasons to criticise Gaga. I think, like her insane Manson-esqe control of her fans, obsessions with stupid costumes over melodic content, her 0% originality, and such. No need to criticise her for the things that she wants you to think of her.
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okay, we are all aware of the reasons to not like her at this point.