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Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA
I agree that music should be interesting on its own, even without the musicians' appearances playing a role. Sometimes, though, a good show or an unusual presentation can make the music have even more impact.
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I'd rather go to Cirque du Soleil to see strange visual things coupled with music than Manson expressing himself to me on stage. In terms of rock music, there has to be music to build upon with the image which I think Manson doesn't have, therefore his image comes off as baseless and hollow to me. Maynard James Keenan and Peter Gabriel have been known to dress in different ways on stage and yet the image never detracted from the music and didn't solely seek to build up the man (as I feel in the case of Manson) but only served to promote the music as you said above.
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Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA
Marilyn Manson's image didn't make me listen to his songs when I first heard of him back in the early 90's...
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You give his fans too much credit. Unfortunately the multitudes in America (primarily young adults and teenagers) will pick up/download anything that looks cool or pisses off their superiors and only for that reason.
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Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA
My feeling is that his "gimmick" is just part of his artistry, which is an expression of himself. How do you tell the difference between a "gimmick" and a person's genuine desire to show visually who he or she is? Even a drab, average-looking musician is choosing to present herself or himself that way, and probably for a reason (such as not to look "gimmicky")...so wouldn't that *also* be a "gimmick," a way to appeal to certain people?
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I don't feel that way. Manson's image is extremely calculated. Imagine the reaction from his fans if he all of a sudden dropped his image and came out on stage with no make up wearing only jeans and a t-shirt. As a point of reference, when Pantera dropped their 80's glam image in exchange for the one we all associate them with, I don't believe they did so in order to pander to a certain audience. In fact, I find that it was the other way around. Their years as a glam band were an effort to appeal to a trend that was hot at the time. When they just dressed like they normally would, I don't see how they could have been trying to appeal to anyone since metal was deemed dead by many in the early 90's pending the grunge explosion.
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Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA
About prison: I think Marilyn was in *jail*, not prison...which makes me think you probably haven't been in either in order to check how guards act!  Never having been in jail or prison myself, I don't know how all guards treat all prisoners, but I suspect that most male prisoners aren't told to wash their lipstick off in the toilet, as Marilyn Manson was told to do, because few men wear lipstick.
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I said guards in prison don't treat the prisoners well. You don't need to have been there to know that. Regardless of whether it was jail or prison, guards in any type of correctional facility are known for inmate brutality. Had Manson avoided jail it wouldn't have been a problem in the first place. And if the events in jail bothered him so much (or actually happened), why didn't he pursue legal action against the detention officers? I'm sure he could afford a pricey lawyer to really stick it to the man.
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Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA
The point is that Marilyn Manson *has* faced a lot of social criticism because his music and image challenge society's claim that it supports freedom of speech, freedom of religion (or lack of it), and a large amount of freedom in personal appearance choices. The guards at the jail where he was held symbolize society's discomfort with someone who breaks the "rules" and encourages others to question the rules that confine them.
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Manson's no different from any minority out there. He's championed by many and also vilified by many for his image. He wasn't put in jail because he looks strange, he was put in there for another reason--sexual misconduct I'm guessing. It was only when he got to jail that he experienced physical opposition in regards to his image (allegedly). And as I stated above, guards aren't nice and cuddly. Just ask any black or hispanic inmate who happens to chance upon a bigoted guard and I'm sure they could relay stories much worse by way of pain than having to wash their face in toilet water.