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Originally Posted by tore
I don't think science says waking dreams or hallucinations can't have any value or personal context. That's all you!
There are many cultures in the world where, famously, people take hallucinogenics as a way to get in touch with themselves on a deeper level .. or something like that. I don't think it's science's goal to devalue experiences like that, just to figure out what causes them to happen.
I believe out of body experiences to be illusions, waking dreams or hallucinations. With the right setup, it's been possible to induce out-of-body experiences with experimental setups.
>> The Experimental Induction of Out-of-Body Experiences |
Yes, I agree. Thanks for clearing that up as I didn't mean to say that science seeks to devalue OBE experiences, but rather that some are of the belief that the hallucinations are random and the personal value is entirely dependent upon later assumptions and bias, as opposed to truly retreating into the mind as ThePhantastasio describes below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePhanastasio
I don't think of the "astral plane" as being a completely separate place at all. Although I do feel that its presence, via OBEs, psychosomatic or no, probably contributes strongly to solidifying faith in there being something "more".
The way I feel about it, whether it be from psychedelic experimentation, meditation, traumatic events, etc. is that it's the consciousness retreating fully into the subconscious, bringing that instead to the forefront of ones' awareness. I think it's an occurrence that externalizes internal thoughts, making them appear to be solid and tangible in some sense, which is a truly intense and often humbling experience.
Via psychedelic experimentation, I myself have experienced what can be best described as out of body experiences, often resulting in complete dissolution of ego, an understanding of the significance of things on a grander scale, myself being completely minute and meaningless in the grand scheme of things. During these times, I have felt completely removed from my body, but I believe that I had simply retreated deep within my own mind - so that consciousness of what signifies "awake" and what signifies "asleep" became blurred.
It really is kind of difficult to articulate without it seeming to be full of contradictions, but that's really the best way I can explain my opinion as a result of experiences.
Let it be known also that this is quite possible the most subjective of opinions - it's simply the sense that I gathered from my own personal experience, without all-encompassing knowledge of what it all really meant.
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I have never tried any sort of substance induced OBE experimentation, but just today I did feel
something quite unlike anything I've yet to experience through plain and simple meditation.
I was actually playing a binaural beat (theta) while laying down and meditating. As much as I'd like to believe binaural beats do anything significant to brain waves, the jury is still out - and I was really only playing it as a way to drown out ambiance. Anyway, after about 45 minutes of relaxation I became partially paralyzed, perhaps not physically but psychologically I couldn't quite signal my hands to move anywhere beyond a slight nudge. It was as if they were being held in place. After about 15 more minutes of this sensation on again, off again, something really frightening happened. My entire body felt as if started vibrating. This startled me so much that I tore my blindfold off and stopped the music (so apparently with enough of a want to I could indeed move).
I was quite disappointed with myself for not sticking with it and seeing where it went. Especially after reading that the "Vibrating stage" occurs right before an OBE.
I'm still in awe of it all. With absolutely no religious pretext whatsoever I was still able to experience something so..
different. And without the use of a substance.. it's all just concentration. The mind is an incredibly powerful thing. My personal theory is that those who can "astral project" at will have trained their body to fall asleep while their mind stays awake. It's really an amazing concept to me.