Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batlord
Wait, so were you just shootin' the ****, discussing intelligent design on the steps of the local pizza place type of situation, and they up and made you gather research data?! Classy.
|
Well, they said something to the extent of "if this is true, then why don't we see any evidence for it in the fossil record?"
I said that I thought that if we looked in precambrian strata, we'd probably find some rudimentary motor far less complex than this, but they accused me of making a remark like that without evidence and therefore "begging the question".
I felt like asking them to explain samites and pelites found in Dalradian folds if they were so knowledgeable about geology, but I thought better of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tore
Yes, I was thinking of the Type Three Secretion System which is basically a needle-like adaptation for detecting other organisms and secreting proteins. It is made up of a smaller subset of the same proteins which make up the eubacterial flagellum and the two are homologous, meaning they have shared evolutionary ancestry.
|
I'd like to elaborate on this slightly: The TTSS is not used in the rotary motor, but is found in parasitic bacteria who use it as a pump for poisoning the host cell. It is shaped according to the shape of the protein it pumps through, or if I wanted to be technical I'd say it corresponds to the tertiary structure of the protein.
What is very interesting is that you will find these systems in bacteria that are not closely related. The point is that these protein structures in the TTSS are very similar to the flagella motor.
What can we deduce from this?
Steveeden would probably start trying to "open my eyes" at this point, but to the rest of us it is clear that the TTSS was taken from these bacteria and used in the flagella for a DIFFERENT PURPOSE.
So what I'm trying to say is that although it might not work if not all the components are present, the components themselves can be taken from other cells and used for a different purpose. Isn't it incredible that the TTSS can do two completely different things?
I hope you found this interesting, I certainly did!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tore
I hadn't heard about the bubonic plague before, but since it's caused by gram-negative bacterias of which many are known to possess TTSS, that sounds likely.
|
^^^See above!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tore
I think that by logically presenting a case that shows the flagellum is not irreducibly complex, you've already won the argument. After all, had the flagellum really been irreducibly complex, then you shouldn't have an argument to counter that statement with.
|
Well, they wanted "fossil evidence", and the fact that I don't carry any around with me was apparently enough for them to start laughing at me.