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Mr November · 01-28-2012, 10:15 PM

This seems like a very interesting novel.

The questions have me a bit confused. Is Kundera's portrayal fair and accurate... well if we mean by defining nostalgia as the pain of ignorance, then I think that there's a real difference between that and the dictionary definition, in that you're going a step further or a step less than just to long for a past place or time. He's basically saying that it's a pain derived from reflecting on memories of our past, or the pain that comes from living in the past. The dictionary paints the term as just longing for the good old days. So it seems to me that Kundera is being accurate and fair to his own definition of nostalgia, and accurate and fair in that his definition describes emotions or thoughts that I know are real.

So from here on in, I'll take the term nostalgia to refer to "the pain of ignorance". Because in the end the word nostalgia is just a word... but what's more meaningful is the idea that it describes.

For the second question, I think that there is a connection between ignorance and nostalgia, at the moment where life is moving too fast to comprehend it completely. Nostalgia is the grey area that we process in reflection and maybe in our dreams if we can remember them at all.

Third question: So it seems like the kind of nostalgia that is felt when you are wishing to return to the past (whether its the reality of the past or the places you've been) should be looked at as its own subject within the broader definition presented by Kundera.

I don't think its unhealthy to feel nostalgia in Kundera's broader sense. I think its inevitable and healthy to reflect on the past. But it isn't healthy to dwell on the past.

Lame Accounting Type Person Example: If you were doing up a budget, you might have to deal with some sunk costs. These are costs that you are committed to and that for better or worse you have to accept. It's all of the other costs that you use to balance the budget and to accomplish your end goals - you don't dwell on the sunk costs because you no longer have control over them.

People who dwell on the positives of the past might actually enjoy that experience to some extent - you'll have to wait for a more nostalgic person's input. But in general I think the grass always looks greener on the other side, and so dwelling on the past can probably badly impair a persons vision of the present and future. But one day when I'm an old man sitting in a rocking chair at a retirement home, I think that having some nostalgic memories to lean on might be an important part of the human experience - or maybe not - maybe thats why some people want to die young.

Fourth Question: I think of sentimentality as being a feeling toward an object, a thought, or a topic. I think nostalgia is a kind of sentimentality, but that sentimentalism can be had toward things pertaining to the past, present, or future. I think that if you're feeling sentimental about an object or a memory, that you could be reflecting on what those things represent about the person you are today and the person that you're bringing forward into the future - and to me that doesn't fit either definition of nostalgia. It doesn't represent ignorance or longing, it represents knowledge and identity.

Last question: I don't think of myself as a nostalgic person by the dictionary definition. But I would fit into Kundera's concept of it. I reflect on thing often, but I don't often wish that I could change things or return to passed times in my life. I have more vivid memories of negative experiences than positive - bad memories are where most of my fears and insecurities come from. I don't dwell on the memories themselves but on avoiding repeating them in the future - and sometimes I'm sure that prevents me from living the present to its fullest.

My question: Can people experience nostalgia over places and times that they were never a part of? For example, vintage clothing, the sound of vinyl... Civil war re-inactments... you get the picture. And if so how does that factor into some of the other questions?

01-28-2012, 10:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
Mr November Music Addict Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Halifax, Canada Posts: 429	This seems like a very interesting novel. The questions have me a bit confused. Is Kundera's portrayal fair and accurate... well if we mean by defining nostalgia as the pain of ignorance, then I think that there's a real difference between that and the dictionary definition, in that you're going a step further or a step less than just to long for a past place or time. He's basically saying that it's a pain derived from reflecting on memories of our past, or the pain that comes from living in the past. The dictionary paints the term as just longing for the good old days. So it seems to me that Kundera is being accurate and fair to his own definition of nostalgia, and accurate and fair in that his definition describes emotions or thoughts that I know are real. So from here on in, I'll take the term nostalgia to refer to "the pain of ignorance". Because in the end the word nostalgia is just a word... but what's more meaningful is the idea that it describes. For the second question, I think that there is a connection between ignorance and nostalgia, at the moment where life is moving too fast to comprehend it completely. Nostalgia is the grey area that we process in reflection and maybe in our dreams if we can remember them at all. Third question: So it seems like the kind of nostalgia that is felt when you are wishing to return to the past (whether its the reality of the past or the places you've been) should be looked at as its own subject within the broader definition presented by Kundera. I don't think its unhealthy to feel nostalgia in Kundera's broader sense. I think its inevitable and healthy to reflect on the past. But it isn't healthy to dwell on the past. Lame Accounting Type Person Example: If you were doing up a budget, you might have to deal with some sunk costs. These are costs that you are committed to and that for better or worse you have to accept. It's all of the other costs that you use to balance the budget and to accomplish your end goals - you don't dwell on the sunk costs because you no longer have control over them. People who dwell on the positives of the past might actually enjoy that experience to some extent - you'll have to wait for a more nostalgic person's input. But in general I think the grass always looks greener on the other side, and so dwelling on the past can probably badly impair a persons vision of the present and future. But one day when I'm an old man sitting in a rocking chair at a retirement home, I think that having some nostalgic memories to lean on might be an important part of the human experience - or maybe not - maybe thats why some people want to die young. Fourth Question: I think of sentimentality as being a feeling toward an object, a thought, or a topic. I think nostalgia is a kind of sentimentality, but that sentimentalism can be had toward things pertaining to the past, present, or future. I think that if you're feeling sentimental about an object or a memory, that you could be reflecting on what those things represent about the person you are today and the person that you're bringing forward into the future - and to me that doesn't fit either definition of nostalgia. It doesn't represent ignorance or longing, it represents knowledge and identity. Last question: I don't think of myself as a nostalgic person by the dictionary definition. But I would fit into Kundera's concept of it. I reflect on thing often, but I don't often wish that I could change things or return to passed times in my life. I have more vivid memories of negative experiences than positive - bad memories are where most of my fears and insecurities come from. I don't dwell on the memories themselves but on avoiding repeating them in the future - and sometimes I'm sure that prevents me from living the present to its fullest. My question: Can people experience nostalgia over places and times that they were never a part of? For example, vintage clothing, the sound of vinyl... Civil war re-inactments... you get the picture. And if so how does that factor into some of the other questions? Last edited by Mr November; 01-28-2012 at 10:28 PM.