Music Banter - View Single Post - Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

Guybrush · 07-19-2013, 05:00 PM

^Mr. Booth, you can nitpick at my arguments all you like. I don't want to offend you, but some of your comments seem a bit below you. You are asking questions you seem to be able to answer yourself. You ask me if it's not morally okay to kill someone in a coma because they may have a dream. Are you sure you understand utilitarianism? I am under the impression that you do, so why this question? You know that, according to utilitarianism, an an act which causes more suffering than happiness is morally bad. If I killed anyone, I am pretty sure I would suffer with that personally and probably other people too, hence the act would be morally bad. How could it be good? In the future, if you do understand the concept of utilitarianism, you should be able to judge for yourself whether or not an action is good or bad without asking.

But before you nitpick again; the thing about humans and morale is we have evolved morality as we are highly social beings. When we see someone in need of our help, we may sympathize. What drives that feeling? It is not utilitarianism, nor any other morale theory. It's just some basic emotional reaction which is part of human nature. Without any kind of moral theory to base choices on, we still have a gut feeling we can follow. If you ask me if I would kill a homeless person who would not be missed, I could say no, because he (and I) would suffer for it and that makes it morally bad, according to utilitarianism. But that wouldn't be completely honest. I wouldn't kill a homeless person because my gut feeling tells me it's the wrong thing to do. I wouldn't kill him because I'm pretty much a normal human being.

Humans in general don't follow moral theories in their day to day lives. We instinctively know how to relate to other people which is what morals is mostly about. But sometimes, our inherent morals don't have the answers. We have not evolved to know what we should treat a fetus as from a moral point of view. Relating to them in a social, moralistic manner was not part of our evolution and neither were abortions so we have no inherent reaction to that. Different morale theories exist that can tell us what to do, such as various religious doctrines or moral principles like utilitarianism. So then I ask you, which one should you choose and why?

The reason I like utilitarianism is because it doesn't matter how difficult the question; it is still possible to find the best moral outcome with the best consequences for people. For that reason, it is often employed in difficult life and death situations, f.ex it may allow for one to be killed in order to save thousands. That doesn't mean utilitarianism is the only moral principle I appreciate or follow or that it's good for any situation you could possibly imagine (bring on the comatose hobos universally hated by all), but I still think it provides a good argument and point of view to the abortion debate. Certainly better than f.ex some christian idea that killing is simply wrong and that is that.

07-19-2013, 05:00 PM	#61 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	^Mr. Booth, you can nitpick at my arguments all you like. I don't want to offend you, but some of your comments seem a bit below you. You are asking questions you seem to be able to answer yourself. You ask me if it's not morally okay to kill someone in a coma because they may have a dream. Are you sure you understand utilitarianism? I am under the impression that you do, so why this question? You know that, according to utilitarianism, an an act which causes more suffering than happiness is morally bad. If I killed anyone, I am pretty sure I would suffer with that personally and probably other people too, hence the act would be morally bad. How could it be good? In the future, if you do understand the concept of utilitarianism, you should be able to judge for yourself whether or not an action is good or bad without asking. But before you nitpick again; the thing about humans and morale is we have evolved morality as we are highly social beings. When we see someone in need of our help, we may sympathize. What drives that feeling? It is not utilitarianism, nor any other morale theory. It's just some basic emotional reaction which is part of human nature. Without any kind of moral theory to base choices on, we still have a gut feeling we can follow. If you ask me if I would kill a homeless person who would not be missed, I could say no, because he (and I) would suffer for it and that makes it morally bad, according to utilitarianism. But that wouldn't be completely honest. I wouldn't kill a homeless person because my gut feeling tells me it's the wrong thing to do. I wouldn't kill him because I'm pretty much a normal human being. Humans in general don't follow moral theories in their day to day lives. We instinctively know how to relate to other people which is what morals is mostly about. But sometimes, our inherent morals don't have the answers. We have not evolved to know what we should treat a fetus as from a moral point of view. Relating to them in a social, moralistic manner was not part of our evolution and neither were abortions so we have no inherent reaction to that. Different morale theories exist that can tell us what to do, such as various religious doctrines or moral principles like utilitarianism. So then I ask you, which one should you choose and why? The reason I like utilitarianism is because it doesn't matter how difficult the question; it is still possible to find the best moral outcome with the best consequences for people. For that reason, it is often employed in difficult life and death situations, f.ex it may allow for one to be killed in order to save thousands. That doesn't mean utilitarianism is the only moral principle I appreciate or follow or that it's good for any situation you could possibly imagine (bring on the comatose hobos universally hated by all), but I still think it provides a good argument and point of view to the abortion debate. Certainly better than f.ex some christian idea that killing is simply wrong and that is that. __________________ Something Completely Different Last edited by Guybrush; 07-19-2013 at 05:09 PM.