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Originally Posted by Forward To Death
So you do it by taking away from what white people have accomplished in music?
I don't get this, I always thought of every single one of the artists you mentioned as respected musicians, more respected for their musicianship than Elvis, considering all he really did was play a little rhythm guitar.
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Is it really that threatening to you that African Americans pioneered Rock n Roll instead of the beloved Elvis Presley? lol
How am I taking away from what whites have accomplished by saying that? I am just simply pointing out that rock n roll came from African American artists and musicians.
Facts or facts. If it had been Asians or Whites who had pioneered Rock n Roll I would argue the same thing for them.
The problem is white people get a ISH load of respect in the rock n roll genre. Examples, Beatles, Elvis, Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd etc. What about the African American artists that pioneered rock n roll though? The critics and industry will cite the Beatles and Elvis before they would cite Fats Dominos.
Yes, I have a problem with that because Fats, Chuck, and Richard are the ORIGINAL pioneers.
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Originally Posted by Forward To Death
He was a great singer, and a great performer. No one says that he's superior, but he was a major icon of the 1950s. Certainly the biggest in music at the time. I don't think he was the first person to create music that resembles rock, but his records from 1954 are often considered the first true rock n roll records. You're welcome to disagree with that, I'm welcome to disagree with you.
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I can respect your opinion now here is my opinion
I actually think Jackie Wilson and James Brown were better performers than Elvis. Elvis copied from Jackie Wilson. I much prefer the original versus someone who just imitated him. Elvis was a good singer but his music were songs that were already created by African Americans that he just covered. I prefer the original songs by the original creators than his water down covers.
In MY opinion, Elvis just did manufactured imitations of what African Americans had been doing since the beginning of time. He did not play an instrument very well or write any of his rock n roll music. He was just glorified for it because he was white and good looking which was all you needed during his era to become successful.
I don't get your point that the industry does not find him superior.The industry obviously thinks he is superior if they call him the king of rock n roll and insist he pioneered the genre when he technically did not.
I understand that he is a icon and everything but he just does nothing for me and I don't think he pioneered rock n roll. Popularized it, yes but he definitely did not create the genre and I don't think he was the best performer/singer of his era.
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Originally Posted by Forward To Death
No it isn't, otherwise this thread would be titled "who was the true creator of rock n roll". A King isn't a "first", he's the most important. I never once called Elvis the pioneer of rock, but there's plenty of people who would. I don't necessarily disagree with that either, you could easily make the case that his Sun recordings were the first rock n roll recordings.
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I would think the "king" title for any genre would be the artist that actually changed, pioneered and transcended the genre. By default, that is what makes the artist important to their genre. Despite the lack of credit they get compared to Elvis, Fats and Chuck Berry are VERY important to the genre. Elvis is with out a doubt the most successful in his genre but I don't think he is the MOST important out of his genre. If it wasn't for alot of black entertainers and artists it would not even be an Elvis.
How can you call someone "The King" of their genre if they copied other artists, imitated other artists and sung other artists music in their genre?
I don't get that reasoning.
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Originally Posted by Forward To Death
I disagree. If anything, african americans were just as impactful on the music industry at the time. Chuck Berry, Little Richard, The Drifters, Jackie Wilson among many, many others, were hugely successful. I just don't see the argument that black artists were given the shaft. Maybe they didn't make as much money or something, but the music industry is known for always having ripped off their performers, black or white.
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You honestly believe that African Americans were given the same equality rights and opportunities as whites during the civil rights and jim crow era?? Just because they were celebrity figures does not mean it was peaches and cream for these African American artists, as a matter of fact, it was hard hell for alot of those black artists during that period. They had to struggled to get their songs played on the radio, couldn't stay at certain hotels, wasn't allowed to perform at certain events, was called out their name/cursed at at their own concerts by whites and by their own record labels, etc... so this is bull ish
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Originally Posted by Forward To Death
No it wasn't, you can say it until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't make it true. That's an opinion, I'm stating facts, 1954, Sun recordings where Elvis recorded with the band he would achieve all of his success with for the first time, that's a fact. It was recorded BEFORE Little Richard and Chuck Berry recorded their first albums, that's a fact.
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Fats Domino was making rock n roll before Elvis got signed.
Elvis and his camp already knew about Fats,Little Richard and Chuck Berry and the rock n roll music they were pioneering way before they got record deals. Elvis and his people were at the club and juke joints watching Little Richard and Chuck Berry (way before they were even signed) They took notice of this new cool innovative sound that they were making. They took it and manufactured it for Elvis Presly but they copied many other black artists as well. They took their songs and gave it to Elvis. Elvis was at Jackie Wilson's concerts studying his dance moves and singing style.
I notice you never mentioned Fats who was making rock n roll music way before Elvis was even heard of....
I give Elvis and his people credit they did their homework on the rock n roll genre. I also have to give credit to Elvis for acknowledging the black artists he copied and imitated.
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Originally Posted by Forward To Death
Perhaps you don't think that's rock, perhaps you think something recorded earlier was rock. We can split hairs over it all day until we come to the conclusion that rock was really created in the 1930s if we wanted, but the popular opinion is that Elvis created the first rock records, and all that came before it was proto-rock. I can't prove that "Rocket 88" or "Rock The Joint" isn't a rock n roll record, I'd even say that it definitely resembles rock, but I've also heard music from the 1930s and 40s by white country and folk artists that resembles rock.
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Just because the media wants to say Elvis made the first rock n roll records does not make it true. I've done my home work and I have concluded that it is not true based on the facts. That doesn't take anything away from Elvis but facts are facts and sometimes what the media presents to us are not necessarily facts or the truth. You want me to consider Elvis the King just because the media tells us he is and I simply disagree. Thanks for the videos.
I respect your perspectives but that is my opinion